Do you run harnesses on the street?, why wouldnt you? Options

[seanery]

I don't think I'd use them on the street. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)
Do you guys remember THIS THREAD?

Granted, this is a race car WITH a roll cage...but look at the damage it took even with the cage! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)
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[Aaron Cox]

car is a daily driver..... and a weekend racer.... eventually becoming an only weekend car (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

wont see the track...just spirited street and a several AX's a year (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

hmmmm.....

[TimT]

QUOTE

As far as I'm concerned, every 914 came from the factory with excellent roll over protection.

nope not even close....

maybe 30 years ago that was good rollover protection...

And most of the cars I instruct in are late model BMWs and Porsches with harness bars and five point belts..Im sure the rollover protection it the new car is fine. Tthe 914 has a nice targa bar (how rusty?) and spindly lilttle A-pillars, and a fibreglass roof . Your choice of restraint should be based on a safety system. This debate has many pros and cons all with merit.

Granted street driving is allegedly safer that track driving NOT

[SirAndy]

guys!
do what i do, i run the early style *non*-retracteable seatbelts!

look and work like a normal 3 point seatbelt on the street and give you the nice and snug feeling of a 5-belt racing harness on the track!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) Andy

[Cap'n Krusty]

QUOTE (Howard @ May 25 2005, 11:47 AM)

I wear 'em. IMHO they are safer than 3 point belts and essential if you have a cage. Never had a problem with boys in blue. Cap'n, ya wanna read me that section in a CA insurance policy? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Prolly isn't written into the policy as a specific item. Same for SS braided brake lines. But I guarandamnteeyou if there's a possibility they can use 'em as ammunition to question a claim, or as an excuse to cancel your policy, they will. The term "Modified for racing" comes to mind. Remember, they're the reason we have absurd speed limits, despite an overwhelming number of studies telling scholars speed doesn't kill, and we have seat belts, air bags, padded everything, heavy cars, and all those "safety features" on our roads, when the really need to enforce better driver traing and driver attitude ............................ The Cap'n

[scotty914]

i was looking at some harnesses online today quite a few also had dot and tuv certifications

[GaroldShaffer]

QUOTE (SirAndy @ May 25 2005, 06:19 PM)

guys! do what i do, i run the early style *non*-retracteable seatbelts! look and work like a normal 3 point seatbelt on the street and give you the nice and snug feeling of a 5-belt racing harness on the track! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)  Andy

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/barf.gif)

I hate my early style belts., hence the 5 points I just got (thanks Dan)

And I say (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/bs.gif) about 5 point belts being unsafe for street use. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm 5'7" and I have plenty of head room before the targa bar would crush down to my head level and if I'm going that fast on the street for that to happen then I don't think a 3 point belt would matter either.

Got to ask, has anyone here been in a rollover crash, teener or not? I have, a 76 Chevy Nova Concours going approx 40mph, it was a slow roll but still a rollover. My 3 point did its job, I stayed in my seat but you could still see the mark on my neck from the belt for 3 months afterwards.

My point is this, I feel that a 5 point belt would have kept me from flaying like a rag doll during the roll even at 40 mph I felt like it was rolling at a 100 mph. Its a matter of choice, for a car that I drive ever day they would be PITA but for a car that sees some street use and is used for "NON" street activities then I say go for it.

[campbellcj]

I don't drive mine on the street much at all, but it only has 5-points and no street belts. AFAIK they are not street legal in Calif. and probably not anywhere as they're not DOT approved. Usually I just buckle the laps + left shoulder belt when cruising sloooooowly past the Sheriff station around the corner, but in the canyons I hook up the other side.

Knock on wood -- no law enforcement hassles so far even with noise, race numbers, etc....

[Howard]

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ May 25 2005, 07:31 PM)

Cap'n, ya wanna read me that section in a CA insurance policy? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) [/QUOTE] Prolly isn't written into the policy as a specific item. Same for SS braided brake lines. But I guarandamnteeyou if there's a possibility they can use 'em as ammunition to question a claim, or as an excuse to cancel your policy, they will. The term "Modified for racing" comes to mind. Remember, they're the reason we have absurd speed limits, despite an overwhelming number of studies telling scholars speed doesn't kill, and we have seat belts, air bags, padded everything, heavy cars, and all those "safety features" on our roads, when the really need to enforce better driver traing and driver attitude ............................ The Cap'n

OK, Cap'n. You be the insurance expert and I'll field your questions on EFI, tranny rebuilds, and plate tectonics (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

So here's a short test. My daughter just bought a used MBZ with a fugly f/g spoiler that was glued (?) to the back window. As an expert mechanic, I soaked the adhesive in Goof Off, then tried to pry it off the glass. The verrrry expensive glass shattered.

Would this be covered? Why? Or why not? If they did pay the claim could they cancel my insurance? Raise my rates? Could they do it for braided brake lines? 5 point belts?

[Aaron Cox]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

the insurance agent we love to hate (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
i hope hes right......

[Howard]

Aaron, laugh all you want. Gonna need your help cause I don't know shit about plate tectonics. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (Howard @ May 25 2005, 09:57 PM)

Aaron, laugh all you want. Gonna need your help cause I don't know shit about plate tectonics. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

right now, im leaning toward running them. i can install them so the regular belts can be utilized also....

thanks for the info fellers

[jimtab]

OK, I have been rolled over in a stock 914. My first '73 was 10 months old when an F350 stakebed p/u hit me on the passenger side just behind the door, he said 35 and the sjpd said 55. Punched the right side in and rolled me 1.5 times, ended up on the roof, targa bar intact, but deformed. No contact with my head except the driverside window which was up. No serious injuries, except for the asshole in the Ford who wasn't wearing a belt at all...punched out the windshield and broke his face on the wheel, ran a stop to do all this, fuck him. If I'd had a passenger there is an excellent chance they'd have been killed. His insurance bought me a new '74. I think the targa roll bar is pretty good, if it fails then a lot of other bad, bad shit has happened as well, and extraction from a cage by people not used to them is a nightmare for cops, fire and others "on the street", better hope if you have a crash on the street in your car with a cage that you get a paramedic that has seen how to thread a body out of a cage and racing seat... my .02.

[eeyore]

I usually do street driving without the roof. I expect the sloppy retractable 3 point belt that holds me too loosely to perform just as poorly as a 5 point harness that holds me too tightly.

I do know enough about plate tectonics to understand that my 60 year-old raised-floor house will probably roll over before my 914 does.

[JB 914]

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ May 25 2005, 09:11 PM)

right now, im leaning toward running them. i can install them so the regular belts can be utilized also.... thanks for the info fellers

Good. Practice on your car and then come help me install them on mine (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[redshift]

QUOTE (hmeeder @ May 25 2005, 09:15 PM)

but then most 914s with any kind of harness will attract attention for many other reasons as well.

That's right. Herb nailed it. The teener is a studmobile.


M

[Brando]

QUOTE (TimT @ May 25 2005, 04:23 PM)

Aaron does your car have a rollbar/cage? I WILL NOT use harnesses in a car that doesnt have roll over protection. The harnesses do keep you upright in the seat, but if there is nothing to prevent the roof  from collapsing in a rollover situation, I dont use harness  even if they are in the car (when I instruct)  sometimes the students  look at me wierd when I explain my logic... but hey

In agreement with the statements above... the 914 came with a rollbar. Team with up with the 914's F/G top, which if it can withstand the 914 actually driving over it (ahem... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)) should be able to withstand a moderate roll-over incident, on par or more intense than the subie video posted earlier...

That was pretty funny though... The car rolls over and he just yells "FAWK!"... hehe. Poor car.

[grantsfo]

I'm going to lose my street belts soon.

[Howard]

All the insurance BS and jokes aside, I am way out of my area of expertise here, but IMHO it ain't the collsion with the tree that kills ya, it's the collision when your soft parts hit your car's hard parts. That's why airbags ar so effective. But don't you get the same benefit from 5 point belts? Airbags keep you upright too. All things being equal, you are better off staying in your car and not contacting the hard parts. Seriously, one of you engineering/physics types tell me this is wrong. I take my granddaughter in the car, cinch her up with the racing belts (very similar to the carseat she just outgrew) and we head to the beach. Is there a safer way to do it?

[Marv's3.6six]

Aaron, I have had 5 points in my teener for years and for jus' driven around town I wear only the lap belt! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)