Ignition switch failures, Poll participation por favor Options

[Chris914n6]

A URO rep saw my fail video and contacted me regarding their desire to understand the failure and make improvements. Part of the problem seems that Corporate doesn't see any failure rate unlike we do -- as none of us seem to be returning them.

So here is a chance to speak up for your experiences.

* My FLAPS sourced URO switch was marked with a green Sharpie 'quality control' dot, so it's safe to assume "other brands" with the same dot come from UROs manufacturer. For me that includes 2 other name brands.

My Video post

[Mark Henry]

Ford solenoid mod no failure, original switch.

[Mikey914]

Well ive done it before, but could make these. What is the mode of failure? Loise contact arcing causing switch to melt?
Id be happy to make these correctly.

[914Sixer]

Plastic is not hard enough to keep from breaking where the tip of key rotates the switch.

[GregAmy]

Yeah, the switches are likely crap, but everyone should relay their starter circuit regardless (link in Mark's sig above). There's no reason to be sending that higher-amps all the way forward, through a plastic switch, and all the way back.

[76-914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) w Mark. My 76 is done that way and I've had it since 99 w/ same switch. My 73 has OEM and solenoid, too. Still ok since '11. My 70 failed after about 25 on/off cycles off the switch while doing tests. This is even before it ever cranked over. I bought a used OEM from Bruce and installed solenoid. Have no Idea what brand it came with but it was junk. Would not send power out to the #9 blk wire. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Mikey914]

When i had the opportunity I bought about 6 NOS switches. This was a few years ago. Think ill dig these out and take a look. I would make available a few for those in need, but thinking if i made in glass reinforced Delrin. It would be a better product.

I would agree from a design standpoint the relay is a great improvement.
Mark

[StratPlayer]

My experience with ignition switches
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=110441

[ConeDodger]

A URO rep saw my fail video and contacted me regarding their desire to understand the failure and make improvements. Part of the problem seems that Corporate doesn't see any failure rate unlike we do -- as none of us seem to be returning them.

So here is a chance to speak up for your experiences.

* My FLAPS sourced URO switch was marked with a green Sharpie 'quality control' dot, so it's safe to assume "other brands" with the same dot come from UROs manufacturer. For me that includes 2 other name brands.

My Video post

They don’t return them because the price is low enough that the hassle exceeds the reward.

[ConeDodger]

A URO rep saw my fail video and contacted me regarding their desire to understand the failure and make improvements. Part of the problem seems that Corporate doesn't see any failure rate unlike we do -- as none of us seem to be returning them.

So here is a chance to speak up for your experiences.

* My FLAPS sourced URO switch was marked with a green Sharpie 'quality control' dot, so it's safe to assume "other brands" with the same dot come from UROs manufacturer. For me that includes 2 other name brands.

My Video post

They don’t return them because the price is low enough that the hassle exceeds the reward.

[Tbrown4x4]

"Genuine Porsche" from Pelican about 2 years ago. Plan on doing the Ford solenoid soon, but 100 miles a day and still no issues. (I thought I put the Meistersatz in and accidentally voted "other".)

[Porschef]

They're still available OEM for later car's. Delrin would be a great solution, IMHO.

Yay Mark (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[jim_hoyland]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) A new-improved version will be great
Are there 3 versions of the switch for the different years ?

[gothspeed]

I replaced my cracked OE switch with one from a local VW parts shop. Do not recall the brand but hopefully it lasts a little while.

This thread has some good 'fix' info:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...START&st=20

[914Toy]

Please correct me if I am wrong believing as follows:

1) Relay switches.

The starter motor has a relay switch attached to it with a large wire connection for the positive wire (high amps) directly from the battery, and a small blade connection for the yellow wire (low amps) from the ignition switch starter mode contact. The yellow wire signal is a low amp signal to the relay switch which then connects the high amp power from the battery onto the motor, probably drawing as much as 30 to 40 amps to turn the engine over.

Thus, why do some suggest an additional relay switch is helpful?

2) Ignition switch.

I have noticed the high frequency failure of the typical column mounted ignition switch reported. The physical force to turn the key the last clockwise notch to engage the starter (yellow wire) maybe the primary cause of these switches failing.

My solution was to install a "press start" switch (see pic) with a relay switch so that to start the engine - you switch the ignition on as usual, but use the press start switch to engage the starter, thus avoiding using the key to press/twist the switch to the starter position. It also looks cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[GregAmy]

The starter motor has a relay switch attached to it with a large wire connection for the positive wire (high amps) directly from the battery, and a small blade connection for the yellow wire (low amps) from the ignition switch starter mode contact. The yellow wire signal is a low amp signal to the relay switch which then connects the high amp power from the battery onto the motor, probably drawing as much as 30 to 40 amps to turn the engine over.

Thus, why do some suggest an additional relay switch is helpful?

Without getting into too much electrical technical discussion...you are correct: the starter motor itself gets its driving amps directly from the battery through the large positive cable. And, the starter solenoid is itself a relay in that it engages the motor when it moves.

However, engagement of the solenoid is a relatively-high-amp draw itself, since it has high(er) coil resistance. While maintaining a solenoid engaged is only around 8-10A or so (I've never measured it) the process of engaging that solenoid, the first 30-50 milliseconds of inrush when you turn to the start position, is actually a higher current draw, I'm guessing anywhere from 25-30A. That can be hard on a switch, especially one of crappy design.

Energizing a relay, such as the Ford relay or the commonly-used "hot start kit" Bosch relay, only takes about 3A.

Further, in the Porsche 914 that 25/30-then-~10A current has to go from the battery, all the way up front to the fuse panel, then up to the ignition switch, then all the way back to the starter solenoid. And all across 40+-yr-old wiring and connections.

So, all in all, it's just good electrical design to place a relay back there, keep the current local, and minimize current to all the way up front and then back.

[JeffBowlsby]

The replaceable ignition switch plastic portion rotates in the metal switch barrel when operated and needs to be lubricated to reduce wear and stress on the plastic switch housing. I believe this lack of lubrication is a major contributor to premature switch failures. Use a thin coating of silicone grease.

[914Toy]

The starter motor has a relay switch attached to it with a large wire connection for the positive wire (high amps) directly from the battery, and a small blade connection for the yellow wire (low amps) from the ignition switch starter mode contact. The yellow wire signal is a low amp signal to the relay switch which then connects the high amp power from the battery onto the motor, probably drawing as much as 30 to 40 amps to turn the engine over.

Thus, why do some suggest an additional relay switch is helpful?

Without getting into too much electrical technical discussion...you are correct: the starter motor itself gets its driving amps directly from the battery through the large positive cable. And, the starter solenoid is itself a relay in that it engages the motor when it moves.

However, engagement of the solenoid is a relatively-high-amp draw itself, since it has high(er) coil resistance. While maintaining a solenoid engaged is only around 8-10A or so (I've never measured it) the process of engaging that solenoid, the first 30-50 milliseconds of inrush when you turn to the start position, is actually a higher current draw, I'm guessing anywhere from 25-30A. That can be hard on a switch, especially one of crappy design.

Energizing a relay, such as the Ford relay or the commonly-used "hot start kit" Bosch relay, only takes about 3A.

Further, in the Porsche 914 that 25/30-then-~10A current has to go from the battery, all the way up front to the fuse panel, then up to the ignition switch, then all the way back to the starter solenoid. And all across 40+-yr-old wiring and connections.

So, all in all, it's just good electrical design to place a relay back there, keep the current local, and minimize current to all the way up front and then back.

This makes sense. I will add a 30 amp relay switch (Ford or Bosch) for the solenoid switch connection to the battery, using the yellow wire from my push start to initiate this additional relay switch. Thanks for the description.

[porschetub]

The switch design is basically the same for 914,T2,944,924,T25 and I believe later T1 and several Audi's of a similar era there is possibly more that I don't know about.
The key issue is the top section cracks @ the point where the return spring tang fits no getting past that regardless of the brand IMO its just a matter of time/use ,from direct experience I haven't seen a switch melt but I'am sure it could happen.
I started a thread some months ago after looking into the issue and found the direct result of the top section cracking is the contact springs lose tension and cause intermitant "dead spots" until the switch fails completely.
Using Pelican Meistersatz replacement and so far so good,I refuse to buy anything URO after being stranded on the side of the road by one of their parts in my old Golf GTI,URO guy pops up every now and then but never directly replies quality issues......funny that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif).
Perhaps 914 rubber could make a stronger top cap section for the switch then folks could swap them out....easy enough to do afterall.

[djway]

Hurry up Mikey. In the car I am rebuilding the plastic housing was cracked so I heat welded it back together. If you make the switch before I put the column back in the car I don't have to take the risk.