 Ignition switch failures, Poll participation por favor |
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| Chris914n6 |
 Dec 30 2017, 08:40 PM
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#1
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Jackstands are my life.  Group: Members Posts: 3,328 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
A URO rep saw my fail video and contacted me regarding their desire to understand the failure and make improvements. Part of the problem seems that Corporate doesn't see any failure rate unlike we do -- as none of us seem to be returning them.
So here is a chance to speak up for your experiences. * My FLAPS sourced URO switch was marked with a green Sharpie 'quality control' dot, so it's safe to assume "other brands" with the same dot come from UROs manufacturer. For me that includes 2 other name brands. My Video post |
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Replies(20 - 39)
| whitetwinturbo |
Jan 1 2018, 08:03 PM
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#21
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Honey, does this wing make my ass look fat? Group: Members Posts: 1,391 Joined: 22-October 11 From: Newport Beach/Kalefornya/USA Member No.: 13,704 Region Association: Southern California |
..........who can post "ford" mod thread?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
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| 76-914 |
Jan 1 2018, 09:30 PM
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#22
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Repeat Offender & Resident Subaru Antagonist Group: Members Posts: 13,507 Joined: 23-January 09 From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 9,964 Region Association: Southern California 
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| Chris914n6 |
Jan 1 2018, 10:07 PM
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#23
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Jackstands are my life. Group: Members Posts: 3,328 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region |
The 'top' from my URO swapped over and fixed my OEM switch, thus not a total waste. If that's all you need this might be the way to go.
URO -- Original with URO 'cap' -- Original from a parts car.  QUOTE(porschetub @ Jan 1 2018, 12:56 PM)  The switch design is basically the same for 914,T2,944,924,T25 and I believe later T1 and several Audi's of a similar era there is possibly more that I don't know about. The key issue is the top section cracks @ the point where the return spring tang fits no getting past that regardless of the brand IMO its just a matter of time/use ,from direct experience I haven't seen a switch melt but I'am sure it could happen. I started a thread some months ago after looking into the issue and found the direct result of the top section cracking is the contact springs lose tension and cause intermitant "dead spots" until the switch fails completely. Using Pelican Meistersatz replacement and so far so good,I refuse to buy anything URO after being stranded on the side of the road by one of their parts in my old Golf GTI,URO guy pops up every now and then but never directly replies quality issues......funny that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif). Perhaps 914 rubber could make a stronger top cap section for the switch then folks could swap them out....easy enough to do afterall. |
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| Mark Henry |
Jan 1 2018, 10:22 PM
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#24
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(whitetwinturbo @ Jan 1 2018, 09:03 PM) ..........who can post "ford" mod thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Bottom of my signature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) BTW the pic 76-914 posted is my drawing that I posted in the early 2000's when the 914world (club) started. |
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| Mikey914 |
Jan 2 2018, 02:19 AM
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#25
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The rubber man Group: Members Posts: 12,677 Joined: 27-December 04 From: Hillsboro, OR Member No.: 3,348 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(djway @ Jan 1 2018, 05:47 PM) Hurry up Mikey. In the car I am rebuilding the plastic housing was cracked so I heat welded it back together. If you make the switch before I put the column back in the car I don't have to take the risk. This is in process. I have Bruce sending me a few different switches for analysis. I'd rather get it right than fast. But the process should take about 14 weeks give or take a few. Mark |
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| djway |
Jan 2 2018, 03:20 AM
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#26
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 16-October 15 From: Riverside Member No.: 19,266 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Jan 2 2018, 12:19 AM) QUOTE(djway @ Jan 1 2018, 05:47 PM) Hurry up Mikey. In the car I am rebuilding the plastic housing was cracked so I heat welded it back together. If you make the switch before I put the column back in the car I don't have to take the risk. This is in process. I have Bruce sending me a few different switches for analysis. I'd rather get it right than fast. But the process should take about 14 weeks give or take a few. Mark (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| bdstone914 |
Jan 2 2018, 06:05 AM
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#27
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bdstone914 Group: Members Posts: 4,531 Joined: 8-November 03 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 1,319 |
So I went through 15 switches to see how they failed. They include the 75-76 type and the 72-74 type. Late type have a different bottom shape. About half were cracked at the small hole that holds the return spring. Some have the hole wallowed out where the tumbler assembly fits into the switch. The cracking looks like a design flaw with Porsche and aftermarket switches. The wall is less than .025' and it cracks from the spring pressure. I had one switch that had the spring holding hole made horizontally and may be less prone to cracking. One early and one late and a bunch of cracked ones going to Mark to make a better switch. From what I have seen at Pelican the cheap brands are bad no matter who makes them. Porsche is $40. We had one customer drop his onto the carpeted floor from the steering column height and is shattered on the floor. If you need one now buy a genuine Porsche one.
Other observations. 1 Some have an electrical contact inside of the hole for the tumbler. (last picture) 2 The top area that cracks might be able to be enlarged in diameter to reduce the cracking. It fits into the housing but the hole there seems to be bigger than the part that goes intio it. Attached thumbnail(s)    
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| bdstone914 |
Jan 2 2018, 06:11 AM
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#28
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bdstone914 Group: Members Posts: 4,531 Joined: 8-November 03 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 1,319 |
[quote name='Chris914n6' date='Jan 1 2018, 10:07 PM' post='2563415']
The 'top' from my URO swapped over and fixed my OEM switch, thus not a total waste. If that's all you need this might be the way to go. Why but a URO parts at all ? Considering the labor to put one in you do not want to do the job twice. Go buy a genuine one for $40 and be done with it. |
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| bdstone914 |
Jan 2 2018, 06:22 AM
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#29
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bdstone914 Group: Members Posts: 4,531 Joined: 8-November 03 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 1,319 |
A URO rep saw my fail video and contacted me regarding their desire to understand the failure and make improvements. Part of the problem seems that Corporate doesn't see any failure rate unlike we do -- as none of us seem to be returning them. They do not care about quality until some one posts about the crap they make. If they had a clue as to how to make parts they would not need to ask customers how they fail. And they could test the product if they cared at all before selling there junk and asking customers how they fail. They copy products and do little to make sure they are reliable. Same with the other crap brands. |
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| ConeDodger |
Jan 2 2018, 08:47 AM
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#30
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,605 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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I bought a spare Porsche ignition switch to keep as a spare shortly after my original switch failed and I replaced it with original. One could argue that the original switch had lasted 25-30 years and that point so what am I worried about. Well, I’m worried about the second one failing and the only solution being a big red button on the dash. (No offense but I’m not trying to keep a tractor running, it’s a classic.)
If Mark uses glass reinforced delrin And otherwise the same quality? 70 years? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) problem pretty much eliminated right? |
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| restore2seater |
Jan 2 2018, 09:10 AM
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#31
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Future 914 copilot. Group: Members Posts: 311 Joined: 30-October 04 From: Dunlap,IL Member No.: 3,037 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Jan 2 2018, 02:19 AM) QUOTE(djway @ Jan 1 2018, 05:47 PM) Hurry up Mikey. In the car I am rebuilding the plastic housing was cracked so I heat welded it back together. If you make the switch before I put the column back in the car I don't have to take the risk. This is in process. I have Bruce sending me a few different switches for analysis. I'd rather get it right than fast. But the process should take about 14 weeks give or take a few. Mark Mark, would it be possible to "rig" some type of actuator to cycle the new improved switch you will be producing on and off multiple times? Somewhat similar to what you used for testing your master cylinder. |
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| Mikey914 |
Jan 2 2018, 12:00 PM
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#32
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The rubber man Group: Members Posts: 12,677 Joined: 27-December 04 From: Hillsboro, OR Member No.: 3,348 Region Association: None
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Yes.
Unlike the "laboratory" that URO has we actually test our parts. Damn, we don't have a periodic table. |
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| 11tenths |
Jan 2 2018, 04:03 PM
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#33
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Ve get too soon old, und too late schmart Group: Members Posts: 142 Joined: 11-October 12 From: Islip, Long Island, NY Member No.: 15,026 Region Association: North East States
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| saigon71 |
Jan 2 2018, 04:48 PM
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#34
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,000 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Dillsburg, PA Member No.: 10,428 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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I'm on my 2nd "aftermarket" switch from Pelican in 3 years (about 24,000 miles).
Last time I also paid big ca$h for a genuine OEM and had to wait weeks for it to come in. This will be going in WHEN the next "aftermarket" Pelican switch fails. I may consider the Ford relay if this continues to be a problem for me. |
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| Chris914n6 |
Jan 2 2018, 08:46 PM
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#35
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Jackstands are my life. Group: Members Posts: 3,328 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I'm not a fan of BS so here is an excerpt from the first email I got. This is also why I started this thread.
"Hi Chris, our engineers pulled five random samples of ignition switch 111 905 865L from our inventory, and fully tested both the "on" and "start" circuits, checking all cylinder positions for loss of power. All five switches performed properly, with no defects. We've sold more than 500 of these switches in the last year, and only one was returned because it was not needed by the customer. We have have zero returned as defective, though it is certainly possible that there were some defective units and they were thrown away instead of returned. The engineers are at a loss as to why yours failed, and would like to provide you with a prepaid return label so we can get it back to determine why it was defective, if you still have it. We would also like to reimburse you, whether or not the switch is returned. Thank you, Justin " They are sending me a replacement. I will post my findings. I find it difficult to believe a company would trade their reputation for a couple $ they make off of reselling a Chinese clone. But if I find out the new oil leak on the 335i is their oil cooler seal I replaced last year all hell is going to break loose. QUOTE(bdstone914 @ Jan 2 2018, 04:22 AM) They do not care about quality until some one posts about the crap they make. If they had a clue as to how to make parts they would not need to ask customers how they fail. And they could test the product if they cared at all before selling there junk and asking customers how they fail. They copy products and do little to make sure they are reliable. Same with the other crap brands. |
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| bdstone914 |
Jan 2 2018, 10:31 PM
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#36
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bdstone914 Group: Members Posts: 4,531 Joined: 8-November 03 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 1,319 |
I do not go for BS either although those are my initials.
Working at Pelican today I had two calls of reported Uro parts failures in a short time. The first was a 912 oil line two weeks after installation.. Customer thought it was the oil sending unit and bought that part needlessly to find it was the new Uro line he had recently installed. The second one was a master cylinder. He reported the Uro brand was tapered or champhered at the top where the feed lines attach. Original is straight bore. They may have made them wider to make the line installation easier. He reported visible small puddles of brake fluid on the ground. Found the grommets leaking at the top of the master cylinder. Both customers had extensive vehicle repair experience on vintage Porsches so I do not think installation error was a factor. Regarding the Uro testing. What amperage load did they test them under? How many cycles they they test the switch to in development ? 10 times day normal use would be 3,650 a year so 10,000 = 3 year average use would be a good test to start with. Did they test for switch temperature and voltage drop over time ? I read their response as: "We don't know what we are doing, but to appear responsible we will give you another part just like the first one that failed so you can help us figure out how to make it not fail." Ahh...., no thanks would be my thought. Not a replacement job that is worth the potential $ savings. Get a genuine or wait for Mark to make them. Samples of failures sent to him. Why not pop that failed one open and see for your self what failed ? |
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| 914_teener |
Jan 2 2018, 11:06 PM
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#37
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,201 Joined: 31-August 08 From: So. Cal Member No.: 9,489 Region Association: Southern California |
The last one that failed on me was cracked. I already had the "hot start" mod.
It failed in hot teperatures. |
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| Mark Henry |
Jan 3 2018, 10:04 AM
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#38
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(914_teener @ Jan 3 2018, 12:06 AM) The last one that failed on me was cracked. I already had the "hot start" mod. It failed in hot teperatures. Hot start mod will not cure a faulty or poor quality switch. It will put less of a load on the switch, which is a good thing on a 40 year old OE switch and may help with contact issues of the cheap switches. Your failure in hot temperatures definitely points at a material issue. |
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| Mikey914 |
Jan 3 2018, 11:35 AM
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#39
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The rubber man Group: Members Posts: 12,677 Joined: 27-December 04 From: Hillsboro, OR Member No.: 3,348 Region Association: None
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Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
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| 76-914 |
Jan 3 2018, 12:04 PM
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#40
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Repeat Offender & Resident Subaru Antagonist Group: Members Posts: 13,507 Joined: 23-January 09 From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 9,964 Region Association: Southern California
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QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 1 2018, 08:22 PM) QUOTE(whitetwinturbo @ Jan 1 2018, 09:03 PM) ..........who can post "ford" mod thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Bottom of my signature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) BTW the pic 76-914 posted is my drawing that I posted in the early 2000's when the 914world (club) started. It certainly is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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