OT: where to buy American made tools, Sears is going bust! Options

[914 RZ-1]

[quote name='NoEcm' date='Jan 6 2018, 10:34 AM' post='2564958']
All USA made Craftsman Tools at least 25 years old. See if you can figure out what's wrong with them before scrolling down for the answer(s).


This is really interesting! Where'd you get all these? Just collect them over the years? How come you didn't take any if them back? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sithot]

If you find the right Snap On dealer they will "play ball", especially if they're not having to "carry you" on the books. The dealer I used is a fine person and a good businessman when it comes to selling. He's not in love with inventory. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


What do you mean by ""carry you" on the books"?

Snap On will finance your purchases, meaning monthly payments, which the rep keeps records of on the books (bookkeeping) and is responsible for. Mechanics, like any other creditor, can be slow to pay. Worse yet, they can move or disappear and the representative is left "holding the bag".
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/left-holding-the-bag

When a customer walks in with cash/check/credit card he's more inclined to "Make A Deal". It's money in his pocket NOW. There is no doubt he will be paid.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I think a clear distinction needs to be made on what tools and for what purpose. Anyone who makes their living off tools should buy the best quality tools they can, and have a very wide variety of tools to be able to do their job quickly. Time=$$$. And yes financing a set of tools can make sense, if you're a full time mechanic, they will pay for themselves.
But for someone working on their car in their garage it doesn't make sense to spend thousands on tools, the math just isn't there. For a home set you probably shouldn't spend over $500-1000, and includes a medium sized compressor and a impact fun.

[NoEcm]

This is really interesting! Where'd you get all these? Just collect them over the years? How come you didn't take any if them back? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

These were collected when I worked at Sears part time while attending college.

[90quattrocoupe]

The majority of my hand tools are Craftsman. I always liked the convenience of being able to buy an individual socket or wrench when I needed just one. Or the convenience of getting a replacement for a damaged tools. I haven't bought any China Craftsman products.
If I needed a tool that Craftsman did not make, such a flared crows feet, I bought SK or Facom.
If I needed a specialty tool that was designed for use on a particular car I owned, I bought the tool. I always figured that the cost of the tool was cheaper than having someone else do the work for me. If I couldn't find the tool, I made it.

Greg W.

[mepstein]

Snap on is as big a rip off as Harley..
You want to drink the Kool aid, go for it..
Neither is worth the price....

Yes but there’s are reasons it works. They come to you. That’s very appealing to a mechanic who doesn’t have to leave work to buy what they need. Even the young guys at our shop don’t seem to be very internet savy when it comes to buying on the web. They offer financing for everything, including the big expense tool boxes. Again, the guys at our shop don’t seem to be very savy about the cost of long term financing. At least for us, the rep will warranty most anything so at least the investment is usable for a long time without the hassle of traditional returns.

If you want a good deal on a tool box, ask the snap on, Matco, or Mac dealer for a repossessed box. They get them all the time, usually in great shape and the reps will deal since they already made their money once, the second sale is gravy for them and has already been written it off by the company.

1. Is someone telling these not so savvy young guys that they might be getting ripped off? Don't get me wrong, I agree that buying good tools is important, but financing them?! And how are they not web-savvy? Seems like they could get a good set of tools from Proto/SK (I think they have programs for students and apprentices) or even Home Depot/Lowes for way less.

2. Is it a good deal if it's still really pricey? How much is a used/repossessed tool box from Snap-On? Tool boxes seem to be one of those things that everyone makes well. Even Harbor Freight seems to have decent ones.

BTW, no disrespect/animosity intended or implied, I'm just asking/having an interesting discussion!

A lot of mechanics, especially the young guys, work paycheck to paycheck so financing is important for them. They have no idea what the first al cost of the tool will be, just the monthly payment.
It’s also important for them to get the best tools they can “afford”. If I strip a nut, bolt or screw, it’s a pita. If they do it, it’s money.
A nice used box might be $5-6k. That’s a pretty big box, much bigger than box store ones. You will need a truck with a lift gate or forklift to move it. The high end boxes are nice. They are mechanic sized and built very tough. I have a HF box in my house, works fine for me but would probably collapse with all the tools our guys keep the n their box.

Trust me, I understand the financing issue and try to help the guys but it usually falls on deaf ears. At least my kids understand the money thing so I have to be satisfied with that. ...Even if they don’t understand my 914 addiction.

[somd914]

A good friend is an orthopedic surgeon. I enjoy looking through his tool catalogs. Prices, well, you have to inquire... Then you get into repair fixtures - delivered as needed on a short notice, i.e. within an hour or two. Pricing, well, sell your 914 at you might have enough.

Snap On is a bargain compared to these guys...

But seriously, I see the Snap On truck at our fab shop on a regular schedule, and if requested will make unscheduled trips. Expensive, yes, but quality engineering, materials, manufacturing, distribution, and customer service/warranty come at a cost.

You can spend $15k on a new Kia, or you can spend $150k on a new Porsche - your call.

[sixaddict]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Sorry to do this but this hardly warrants the energy expended !
Craftsman ( my HS graduation gift so long ago they were good and so was I) has been crap for years.
I actually have bought their professional grade which was pretty nice.
Snap-on is ridiculous but may be worthy for the professional ( still very high $$)......hardly worth the $$ for the hobbyist.
All of this is a great example of brand marketing ... ...one that has been carried by a consumer warranty with a now inferior product and the other but high price image where technicians have to make payments for stuff they could get much cheaper..
Think about it....

[MarkV]

Nobody has mentioned used tools. Most of my tools were bought in sets used. Lots of Craftsman sockets. I don't like Craftsman ratchets, end wrenches or pliers most of those I have are Snap-On. Metric end wrenches are Proto. My 1/4" sockets are all Craftsman but ratchets are Snap-On. There are a couple of local used tools stores where I found most of them. I have a few odd ball Harbor Freight tools like my giant 1/2 breaker bar that has been used maybe twice. Like many of you I have been collecting since I was 18. I hardly ever buy tools new.

[lalee914]

This is an interesting thread. Thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in. Almost all my hand tools are Craftsman and most of it is pretty old by now. I have broken a very few things and only when I was totally abusing them. There used to be a Sears Hardware store less than a mile from my house and I was always running over there to buy the one socket or odd ball wrench or extra long extension that I needed to finish a job. Unfortunately, as part of the effort to make Sears profitable, they closed that store many years ago and now I don't go to Sears any more. I am very happy with Craftsman quality. I see that Ace hardware stores are now carrying Craftsman and honoring the warranty for broken tools.

My son spent a TON of money and bought a large Snap-on tool box and filled it with Snap-on tools. Very expensive but top quality stuff. If I was a professional mechanic I would only use Snap-on or equivalent. For my home use, Craftsman works well.

Number 1 son used to work in a junk yard (which is another story altogether) and he started picking up tools left behind by people taking parts off cars. Probably 90% was Craftsman. We put together and gave away several very nice socket and wrench sets. If any of the tools were rusty or beat up, just take it back to Sears and exchange it for a new one. Hard to beat new tools for free.

All of the Harbor Freight tools I have ever bought have been complete junk. Whenever I buy anything from HF I always assume that I will throw it away after doing the one job that I bought the tool for if I am lucky enough to complete the job without the tool breaking first. I used to live about a mile from HF but now fortunately, the nearest one is many miles away.

[ChapmanMFG]

This company makes a nice kit I picked up recently.

https://chapmanmfg.com
[/quote]

Not only do we manufacture our tools in CT, we source all our materials in the USA as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

Thanks so much for recommending our tools! We're a small shop (15 of us) and we don't have the marketing budget that big companies like Stanley do, so most of our new sales come from happy customers sharing our tools online and in person.

Customers have used our tools on cars probably back to 1936. Do 914's have specific fasteners types/locations that our tools suit particularly well? Is there anything we don't make that you need? Feedback is appreciated!

If there's a few people interested in sets I'm happy to post a discount code.

Thanks again for posting about us!
Joel
Marketing at Chapman MFG
www.chapmanmfg.com

[Unobtanium-inc]

All of the Harbor Freight tools I have ever bought have been complete junk. Whenever I buy anything from HF I always assume that I will throw it away after doing the one job that I bought the tool for

Man, you are soooo right about certain HF stuff. I wait for their sale and buy the max of 5 paint sprayers, use them once, and chuck them. I used to try and clean them but they are so cheap they never work well twice, but at $7 on sale you can't go wrong, and no cleanup, it's like eating out!

[bulitt]

Have owned Craftsman from the late 60's, SK, snap-on.
What is important to me is that they are forged steel. Most Asian branded stuff is not.
Kobalt, Husky are forged and reasonably priced. Work well for me.

[NoEcm]

This is what happens if you collect too many tools and don't have enough garage space. I have to use a step ladder to get to the top box:

[jeffdon]

My Dad was a Snap on dealer from the 70's until he retired in the early 2000's. He once showed me a 3/8 box wrench that was new, next to one from the 80's. The box end was much slimer on the old one. Snap on was cheeping out on the steel, doing raw forging in China, and finishing in USA.

Or at least that is what he thought.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Craftsman was bought by Black and Decker, whose DeWalt brand is ok. But Craftsman has been on the decline for some time, trading on the name. We mostly use Craftsman and the older stuff far outperforms the newer stuff. And by newer stuff I mean 5-10 years old. I have no idea what crap they are selling now.

I now have a better idea what you get when you order Craftsman now, a hair above junk. I ordered a small briefcase style set for my house. I went to change a battery in my truck and couldn't come up with an extension, so figured it would be good to have a set like the one I used to have back in the day. Luckily, I will not be using this one on the regular for doing actual car work, it will probably be used more for lawnmower and garden furniture. But it was cheap, $47 shipped.

[strawman]

I have been managing public transit systems since the early 1990s. Our shop guys rely on and must supply their own good quality hand tools (we supply specialized and REALLY big tools). We always advise the new Technicians to spend their hard-earned dollars on Snap-On tools but to wait for a few years to buy a big Snap-On box; a Technician-C or -B should not saddle himself with $12k debt on a big fancy box that won’t make him money. The Craftsman Pro and even Harbor Freight boxes are good enough until they reach The Technician-A (journey) level. The Snap-On truck stops by weekly to sell hand tools or try to entice the guys to upgrade their boxes; my shop foreman shoos him away after 30 minutes so that productivity isn’t hampered too much.

I’m a tool whore, as evidenced by my overcrowded suburban 2-car garage. Most of my stuff is old Craftsman, some Craftsman Pro, a few selected Snap-On pieces and a smattering of Chinese shit. I still love my remaining Craftsman Pro screwdrivers originally supplied by Armstrong; the new Craftsman Pro shit sucks. Some day, I’m gonna fork out $300 for a new Snap-On screwdriver set...

[Front yard mechanic]

just yesterday I was helping my neighbor with a stripped oil drain bolt so I had to hammer a six point socket on. which brand would you choose to destroy? my pick was the hb freight model no big loss. so there are some advantages to the cheep stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[mepstein]

I have been managing public transit systems since the early 1990s. Our shop guys rely on and must supply their own good quality hand tools (we supply specialized and REALLY big tools). We always advise the new Technicians to spend their hard-earned dollars on Snap-On tools but to wait for a few years to buy a big Snap-On box; a Technician-C or -B should not saddle himself with $12k debt on a big fancy box that won’t make him money. The Craftsman Pro and even Harbor Freight boxes are good enough until they reach The Technician-A (journey) level. The Snap-On truck stops by weekly to sell hand tools or try to entice the guys to upgrade their boxes; my shop foreman shoos him away after 30 minutes so that productivity isn’t hampered too much.

I’m a tool whore, as evidenced by my overcrowded suburban 2-car garage. Most of my stuff is old Craftsman, some Craftsman Pro, a few selected Snap-On pieces and a smattering of Chinese shit. I still love my remaining Craftsman Pro screwdrivers originally supplied by Armstrong; the new Craftsman Pro shit sucks. Some day, I’m gonna fork out $300 for a new Snap-On screwdriver set...

It’s funny how all our guys have snap on boxes except Bob Russo. He has a couple craftsman boxes. He was the crew chief for Al Holbert’s 962 race team and currently maintains a 962, a Mirage, 2005 LeMans RSR and the Brian Redman Chevron. We say when God needs to borrow a tool to fix his Porsche, he calls Bob.

[strawman]

Last year, I implemented a new Apprentice class in the shop, and we supply all tools and the box. We purchased a big Craftsman set and a Harbor Freight box. This allows the newbie to begin purchasing his own tools and save up while he works toward the Technician-C position and beyond. I also wonder if it helps the newbie work harder to both "graduate" to better tools and higher pay...