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> Turbo 914 (1.8 type-4), Turbocharging my 1.8 type-4 for a school project... can anyone give me some advice?
holtby914
post Jan 11 2018, 09:21 PM
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hello,

I am an automotive engineering student at the University of Windsor. I am trying to somehow incorporate the restoration of my 914 into my education somehow. After talking to many of my professors a few of them are suggesting I try and turbo the original 1.8l type-4 came in the car. I have the entire case completely apart, down to the crank, and am at the stage where I'm getting ready to start blueprinting this engine. However, it seems that turbo type-4's are not very common, and I do not seem to understand why. I am ready to take on the challenge, however, I would love some advice (combinations, etc.).

I am thinking that I will keep stock crank and rods, and get some JE forged pistons (not sure of size yet). Was also thinking I port the stock heads. However, beyond that, i have planned anything.

cheers,

Blake
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JeffBowlsby
post Jan 11 2018, 09:58 PM
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Search here for McMark Turbo.
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Mueller
post Jan 11 2018, 09:58 PM
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Search using turbo and McMark as username.

He built a 1.7 turbo and has great pictures and info.

Ideally you'd measure the bores and order pistons to suite the application.
You do not want to bore them bigger, leave them as thick as possible for better sealing right now

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tazz9924
post Jan 11 2018, 10:08 PM
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Im not 100% but isn’t there an issue with the cylinder heads being thin and prone to cracking with boost? More food for thought is wether to use a head gasket.
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holtby914
post Jan 11 2018, 10:20 PM
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I cannot seem to find anything. I will keep looking, I'm kind of new to 914 world and so I'm still figuring out how it all works. Thanks for the advice.
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bbrock
post Jan 11 2018, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE(holtby914 @ Jan 11 2018, 09:20 PM) *

I cannot seem to find anything. I will keep looking, I'm kind of new to 914 world and so I'm still figuring out how it all works. Thanks for the advice.


You got me curious, so I googled it. Here's a couple threads that should keep you busy for awhile (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...54&hl=turbo

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry2140135
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Mueller
post Jan 11 2018, 11:27 PM
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A few reasons turbos are not that popular on 914s that I can think of:

When the car had been brand new or even just a few years old, turbo technology just didnt have the best understanding. Heck even major diesel manufactures had N/A motors like Ford and Chevy and some big rigs.

For the most part 911 engines literally just bolt up. And the bigger motors that don't directly bolt up have support from companies that sell the small required parts.

For many back then and even now FI is like black magic. The stock EFI didn't play too nice with boost. Sure carbs can be made to work however that increases the cost and complexity depending on the design.

Berg made a kit, it was expensive. For a few bucks more one could do an engine swap to a Chevy or the like.

I don't think you will find that many other car models from the same era that has that many aftermarket turbo installs except maybe VW Bugs.

With the value of the cars going up, many people are keeping them stock or just increasing displacment a bit.





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Mike Bellis
post Jan 11 2018, 11:45 PM
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Consider supplementing with methanol injection to reduce preignition and cool under higher pressures.

I think McMark only runs about 7psi on his 1.7L. I've ridden in it and it has good smooth power. Not a monster but a nice running motor.
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PatrickB
post Jan 12 2018, 04:54 AM
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I'd like to see this when you get done, and I'm not too far away. Could maybe time it with a visit to a brother in Belle River. He's a grad of your program that works across the river for one of the big three.
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holtby914
post Jan 12 2018, 07:45 AM
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QUOTE(PatrickB @ Jan 12 2018, 05:54 AM) *

I'd like to see this when you get done, and I'm not too far away. Could maybe time it with a visit to a brother in Belle River. He's a grad of your program that works across the river for one of the big three.



Forsure, whenever you are near! Thanks for all the advice! To be honest the FI scares me but I will cross that bridge when I need too. Was think I might try a do some sort of carb set up, but I’m not sure. I do like the idea of running on meth.
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saigon71
post Jan 12 2018, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE(holtby914 @ Jan 12 2018, 08:45 AM) *

QUOTE(PatrickB @ Jan 12 2018, 05:54 AM) *

I'd like to see this when you get done, and I'm not too far away. Could maybe time it with a visit to a brother in Belle River. He's a grad of your program that works across the river for one of the big three.



Forsure, whenever you are near! Thanks for all the advice! To be honest the FI scares me but I will cross that bridge when I need too. Was think I might try a do some sort of carb set up, but I’m not sure. I do like the idea of running on meth.


You'll need to make a decision on FI or carbs before assembling the case as they require different camshafts.

Good luck with the project and keep us posted.
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ConeDodger
post Jan 12 2018, 09:03 AM
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QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jan 12 2018, 02:45 AM) *

Consider supplementing with methanol injection to reduce preignition and cool under higher pressures.

I think McMark only runs about 7psi on his 1.7L. I've ridden in it and it has good smooth power. Not a monster but a nice running motor.


I think McMark made his as a proof-of-concept so he keeps the boost low for now. The case may have never been apart, so stock internals. He just basically said - “I know you can’t turbocharge a 914, but if you could, what would it look like?” If he started with fresh paper he could beef up the bottom end so he can dial up the boost.
I have driven it and it is pretty good. Small turbo, no lag.
Original Customs is in Grand Rapids Michigan, that’s McMark’s business.
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Mueller
post Jan 12 2018, 09:41 AM
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QUOTE(holtby914 @ Jan 12 2018, 05:45 AM) *

QUOTE(PatrickB @ Jan 12 2018, 05:54 AM) *

I'd like to see this when you get done, and I'm not too far away. Could maybe time it with a visit to a brother in Belle River. He's a grad of your program that works across the river for one of the big three.



Forsure, whenever you are near! Thanks for all the advice! To be honest the FI scares me but I will cross that bridge when I need too. Was think I might try a do some sort of carb set up, but I’m not sure. I do like the idea of running on meth.



Sorry, you HAVE to learn how FI works to be any sort of decent Engineer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you promise to finish it and learn from it, just pay for shipping and I'll send you a partially built Megasquirt for no charge as I have decided this morning to spend the $ and buy a Microsquirt.

If interested I'll post a picture of how far along the assembly is.
Kit is similar to this one: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/megasqu...t-w-black-case/
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mobymutt
post Jan 12 2018, 10:34 AM
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Since McMark's already done the turbo, how about supercharging?
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jd74914
post Jan 12 2018, 10:49 AM
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QUOTE(Mueller @ Jan 12 2018, 10:41 AM) *

QUOTE(holtby914 @ Jan 12 2018, 05:45 AM) *

Forsure, whenever you are near! Thanks for all the advice! To be honest the FI scares me but I will cross that bridge when I need too. Was think I might try a do some sort of carb set up, but I’m not sure. I do like the idea of running on meth.

Sorry, you HAVE to learn how FI works to be any sort of decent Engineer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Carbs are a thing of the past-especially when coupled with forced induction. IMHO one of the biggest parts of this learning experience is in proper implementation of the EFI system (applied learning), though there is also a lot more theoretical learning in turbocharger sizing, intercooler design, etc. as well as potentially modeling the whole thing in Wave, GTPower, Dymola, etc. (Full disclosure I'm an ME with systems background)

Mike's offer is very generous. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Mueller
post Jan 12 2018, 12:09 PM
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QUOTE(mobymutt @ Jan 12 2018, 08:34 AM) *

Since McMark's already done the turbo, how about supercharging?



For some reason I could have sworn I read Jake Raby saying something along the lines that he'd rather turbocharge a Type IV than do another supercharger. I could be way off here.
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holtby914
post Jan 12 2018, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE(Mueller @ Jan 12 2018, 10:41 AM) *

QUOTE(holtby914 @ Jan 12 2018, 05:45 AM) *

QUOTE(PatrickB @ Jan 12 2018, 05:54 AM) *

I'd like to see this when you get done, and I'm not too far away. Could maybe time it with a visit to a brother in Belle River. He's a grad of your program that works across the river for one of the big three.



Forsure, whenever you are near! Thanks for all the advice! To be honest the FI scares me but I will cross that bridge when I need too. Was think I might try a do some sort of carb set up, but I’m not sure. I do like the idea of running on meth.



Sorry, you HAVE to learn how FI works to be any sort of decent Engineer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you promise to finish it and learn from it, just pay for shipping and I'll send you a partially built Megasquirt for no charge as I have decided this morning to spend the $ and buy a Microsquirt.

If interested I'll post a picture of how far along the assembly is.
Kit is similar to this one: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/megasqu...t-w-black-case/


I would be very interested. It is not FI that is confusing to me. It is the 914's FI (what system to use etc.). I need to start somewhere. this would be a huge help, as obviously I am working with a student budget.

Cheers,

Blake

P.s. I sincerely promise I would finish it. It's how I learn best.
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holtby914
post Jan 12 2018, 12:17 PM
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I wanted to add as well that I am currently restoring the entire car. It has some bad rust, and so I have literally torn it down to the shell. It's most definitely not a project I plan on having it running this summer, but to hopefully have it ready within the next two years.
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Mueller
post Jan 12 2018, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE(holtby914 @ Jan 12 2018, 10:10 AM) *

QUOTE(Mueller @ Jan 12 2018, 10:41 AM) *

QUOTE(holtby914 @ Jan 12 2018, 05:45 AM) *

QUOTE(PatrickB @ Jan 12 2018, 05:54 AM) *

I'd like to see this when you get done, and I'm not too far away. Could maybe time it with a visit to a brother in Belle River. He's a grad of your program that works across the river for one of the big three.



Forsure, whenever you are near! Thanks for all the advice! To be honest the FI scares me but I will cross that bridge when I need too. Was think I might try a do some sort of carb set up, but I’m not sure. I do like the idea of running on meth.



Sorry, you HAVE to learn how FI works to be any sort of decent Engineer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you promise to finish it and learn from it, just pay for shipping and I'll send you a partially built Megasquirt for no charge as I have decided this morning to spend the $ and buy a Microsquirt.

If interested I'll post a picture of how far along the assembly is.
Kit is similar to this one: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/megasqu...t-w-black-case/


I would be very interested. It is not FI that is confusing to me. It is the 914's FI (what system to use etc.). I need to start somewhere. this would be a huge help, as obviously I am working with a student budget.

Cheers,

Blake

P.s. I sincerely promise I would finish it. It's how I learn best.


Chances are you have D-jet, not too complicated if you read this site below, great wealth of information:

https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/DJetParts.htm

If you L-jet with the flapper (which I prefer over D-Jet just because I've had more 914's with it):

https://www.type4.org/manuals/ljet/
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KELTY360
post Jan 12 2018, 01:31 PM
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QUOTE(Mueller @ Jan 12 2018, 11:08 AM) *

Chances are you have D-jet, not too complicated if you read this site below, great wealth of information:


He indicated the engine is a 1.8, so it's probably L-jet.
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