Let's talk front sway bars, shall we? Options

[Tdskip]

My '74 914/6 build does not have one. The fuel tank is currently out. Now would be the time to do this, right?

Any tips on diameter for a fast road street car?

[gereed75]

Yep way easier to do with the tank out. There is a recent thread about the reinforcements http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=324705 that is as important as picking the bar. Chris or Eric can help there.

I believe that 16 mm is stock. It will make a huge improvement in handling and feel. I run a 19mm H&H on the middle arm setting and it really holds the car flat. No rear bar and 140 rear springs with a 2.4 six. I have tracked the car in earnest and the Car is very neutral with no bad handling traits to the limits of the very mediocre street tires and flexy chassis. Would highly recommend the 19 for a fun street car!

You thought the car was good without the bar? You will really be amazed with!

[EdwardBlume]

The bigger you go the tighter the car. If you plan to race it competitively, go for big torsion bars too. I have a tarrett bar on the front of Dads car and its overkill for a /4. I'm going to eventually bring it back to a stock bar.

Since yours will be a /6 though, and if its street, a 19MM will do, and stock torsion, unless you want to have shoulder surgery down the road.

[Tdskip]

Thank you gentlemen!

[Eric_Shea]

What's your driving style. Kindof an important question before you get stuck with an outrageously large, stiff bar that will decimate your ride quality.

Stock bars are 15mm and do a FANTASTIC job. Most 19mm bars are adjustable with longer than stock arms so, stock geometry can still be achieved even with a larger bar.

[Mblizzard]

Adjustable front links are a real plus!

[gothspeed]

Here is a nice chassis reinforcement kit for sway bars:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2581342

[Tdskip]

Thanks for the discussion.

Eric - I am asking about the 914/6 that I'm building, it will be used for high-speed touring bands up and down the West Coast. I generally don't track my cars but it will be used in the spirited manner on back country and canyon roads

[EdwardBlume]

Thanks for the discussion.

Eric - I am asking about the 914/6 that I'm building, it will be used for high-speed touring bands up and down the West Coast. I generally don't track my cars but it will be used in the spirited manner on back country and canyon roads

You should drive in a number of set ups if you can, and see what you like. The sway bar is just one part of the equation. I personally think you can get more feedback and fun from turbo tie rods, roller bearings, struts and tire selection. You put on a big adjustable bar and then put it on full soft?

All it takes is money!

[PlaysWithCars]

19mm adjustable. Gives you the flexibility (no pun intended) to tune to your liking and has the potential to be relatively stiff. I ran a 19mm on a stock suspended /4 and it was a great balance. Running a 22mm on my current /6 but with stiffer torsions and springs, would be too stiff on a stock sprung car IMHO.

[Larmo63]

My car has bigger Sway Away torsion bars, Bilsteins, and the stock sway bar up front.

The car handles very well for a street car, and it seems plenty stiff and stout.

[GeorgeRud]

I’ve used the 19mm H&H front bar with 140lb. rear springs on my -6, along with Koni shocks. Seems great for autocross and track days.

[Tdskip]

Thanks for the discussion.

I think I am going to stay with a 15mm or 19mmfor now, don't think I will need bigger than that.

What is the fling rate for a 15mm bs 19mm?

[brant]

just my opinion:


but anti-sway bars do not effect ride as everyone keeps saying
think about it... when you are going straight down the road, the bar is free and has no tension.

when you hit a pot hole you feel it as you would anyways... but the sway bar is still under very little pressure

springs/torsion bars effect ride quality
but sway bars do not

they only come into play when the car is loaded into a corner.

I'm running a 27mm front smart anti-sway bar currently

[914Toy]

Track talk: if your front wheels slide (understeer) into/through the corners, you need to soften the spring pressures, and similarly if the rear wheels slide while the front are tracking well you need to soften the rear springs. Anti sway bars are part of the springing of each end of the car. If you like your car to have less role through the corners anti sway bars obviously minimize role, but too stiff anti sway bars or springs can reduce the cornering ability of the car.

[PlaysWithCars]

just my opinion:

but anti-sway bars do not effect ride as everyone keeps saying
think about it... when you are going straight down the road, the bar is free and has no tension.

when you hit a pot hole you feel it as you would anyways... but the sway bar is still under very little pressure

springs/torsion bars effect ride quality
but sway bars do not

they only come into play when the car is loaded into a corner.

I'm running a 27mm front smart anti-sway bar currently

I have to disagree. I've found that big sway bars make the car ride harsher than bigger springs. Your theory is right in that if you are going down a road and both wheels hit the same road irregularity, and move together, then the sway bar is irrelevant. But, in reality it is nearly impossible that both wheels will hit the same irregularity and move together. Usually there is a difference so the sway bars come into play and create a harsh ride. I've found that spring changes can control body roll as well without the harsh ride.

Now, that said, when you add stiffer springs you can use a bigger sway bar and not experience the harsh ride because the stiff springs reduce wheel end movement and hence won't generate as much force from the sway bar. In fact, I've found that larger bars are needed to get much benefit from them when you have stiff springs.

For reference, my current set up: 23mm hollow front torsions, 22mm sway, 225# rear springs, currently disconnected rear sway bar. Its well balanced for autocross, but I'm looking to go a little stiffer in the rear.

[RickS]

New question. I have an ER front sway bar that I finally got dialed in so it doesn’t make steering in the corners twitchy. Come to find out the drop links were not equal lengths but off by 1/2 inch. Now it corners really well and no longer gets squirrely on high speed corners nearly scaring the s*** out of me.

New issue: the damn thing sqeaks over bumps on the drivers side. Spray lubes quiet itfor a day or two but it comes right back. It’s similar to this but sans Teflon. https://www.elephantracing.com/porsche/914/...stable-swaybar/

Other than replacing with Teflon, or trying more lubes, any permanent solutions?

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

The sixes were tail happy so in 1971 when they finally offered sway bars on the sixes they installed 16 in the front and 15 the rear. that gave the sixes less oversteer

The fours were under steer cars, so for the 1973 models when the factory offered sway bars they installed a 15 in the front and a 16 in the rear to make the cars turn better

also the rear springs were different for the cars. Although the same height the sixes had thicker coils than the fours.

The factory knew what they were doing, if you set your car up with the correct combination of springs sway bars (in addition to the correct factory torsion bars and bilstein hd gas shocks you will be all set. NO REASON to go overboard unless you are taking your very valuable 914-6 up to the track to abuse it! (LOL)

My '74 914/6 build does not have one. The fuel tank is currently out. Now would be the time to do this, right?

Any tips on diameter for a fast road street car?

[r_towle]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Stock works perfect if you are using the car on the street.
Too much stiffness up front will piss you off.

[gandalf_025]

My totally unscientific experience with sway bars comes from
back in the 70’s.
There was a road in a city nearby they called
“the Waves” and without bars on my 6 I could get through the “waves
at around the 60 mph before the car started to feel squirrelly..
I bought an H+H front bar and went back... Now I could go around 70
and the front felt fine, but the back of the car started getting loose.
Went back and bought the rear bar and then I could push closer to 80.

The interesting thing I learned though was that when you push the
car beyond the limits of the bars, it came out FAST and totally
unpredictable.
You were just along for the ride at that point..

I never hit anything, but I did spin the car a few times.

The guy that owner H+H lived 2 towns away and I drove to
his house to buy the bars..