 Been having dreams of dual weber carbs.., Intervention or a push to go back to the stone ages? |
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| Mueller |
 May 17 2018, 01:02 PM
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#1
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914 Freak!  Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None 
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Between seeing all these /6 conversions with Weber carbs and watching too Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with so many carb'd vehicles I keep looking at converting to carbs.
Still going to run a distributor (modern programmable version) so no desire to go full standalone EFI. I'm hoping my L-Jet plays nice on my 1.8 with bigger cam and 2.0 valve sized heads however I'm sure I'd get a little more oomph from the webers...that and webers just plain look sexy. If, and that is a big if....would IDF 40s or IDF 44s be better? |
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| jdamiano |
May 17 2018, 01:19 PM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 335 Joined: 18-March 18 From: Jacksonville Member No.: 21,981 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Mueller @ May 17 2018, 01:02 PM)  Between seeing all these /6 conversions with Weber carbs and watching too Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with so many carb'd vehicles I keep looking at converting to carbs. Still going to run a distributor (modern programmable version) so no desire to go full standalone EFI. I'm hoping my L-Jet plays nice on my 1.8 with bigger cam and 2.0 valve sized heads however I'm sure I'd get a little more oomph from the webers...that and webers just plain look sexy. If, and that is a big if....would IDF 40s or IDF 44s be better? As with most things people like what they know. I know Webers so I like mine. I run 40s on my stock 2.0 and think it runs fine. 44 will be too big unless you have the heads and cam to take advantage of the larger size. You are about to hear from all the guys who know the EFI system that disagree with me. |
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| struckn |
May 17 2018, 03:17 PM
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,069 Joined: 9-November 11 From: South Central York Pennsyvania Member No.: 13,764 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(jdamiano @ May 17 2018, 11:19 AM) QUOTE(Mueller @ May 17 2018, 01:02 PM) Between seeing all these /6 conversions with Weber carbs and watching too Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with so many carb'd vehicles I keep looking at converting to carbs. Still going to run a distributor (modern programmable version) so no desire to go full standalone EFI. I'm hoping my L-Jet plays nice on my 1.8 with bigger cam and 2.0 valve sized heads however I'm sure I'd get a little more oomph from the webers...that and webers just plain look sexy. If, and that is a big if....would IDF 40s or IDF 44s be better? As with most things people like what they know. I know Webers so I like mine. I run 40s on my stock 2.0 and think it runs fine. 44 will be too big unless you have the heads and cam to take advantage of the larger size. You are about to hear from all the guys who know the EFI system that disagree with me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Go with 40's but make sure your CAM will work with them. Keep the L-Jet if you switch and store it in case you ever decide to sell the car. |
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| ConeDodger |
May 17 2018, 04:37 PM
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,573 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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Carbs get away with a lot because they're 'simple.' They're not, Simple that is, but people run them pig rich and put up with the bad behaviors. You'll need a low pressure pump, but that is about it except linkage. EFI is more complicated from the aftermarket POV but you're up for that. The learning curve is steep but it starts to come together after a bit.
If I was staying 4 cylinder which of course, I'll never see another 4 cylinder in my garage, I'd do a 2056 with MS3. |
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| Mblizzard |
May 17 2018, 08:17 PM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,033 Joined: 28-January 13 From: Knoxville Tn Member No.: 15,438 Region Association: South East States |
You can do FI and still get that sexy carb look.
 All a matter of what you want to do. If you want to pay someone to set the carbs it can be expensive initially. A L jet should play well with the mods but sometimes it is hard to make the mods and old FI play well together. |
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| Mark Henry |
May 17 2018, 08:55 PM
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
L-jet won't play nice with a bigger cam.
40mm, the 44's are for much bigger engines. |
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| Elliot Cannon |
May 17 2018, 09:09 PM
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#7
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914 Guru Group: Retired Members Posts: 8,487 Joined: 29-December 06 From: Paso Robles Ca. (Central coast) Member No.: 7,407 Region Association: None 
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I've been rockin' 44idf Webers on my 2.2 liter for the past 15 years. Webers aren't all that complicated. Well, OK they are but if you set them up using the proper sequence they work just fine. Plus, the "badass" factor is there as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=289+co...amp;FORM=VDMCNR
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| TravisNeff |
May 17 2018, 09:24 PM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region
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QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ May 17 2018, 08:09 PM) Oooh baby! |
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| Dave_Darling |
May 17 2018, 11:15 PM
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#9
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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I think it may be a substitution for swapping motors.... If you've decided to keep with this motor, but you still feel the need to change your mind about fundamental drivetrain choices ever 30 minutes, this should scratch the itch for the next half-hour... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
--DD |
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| Chris914n6 |
May 18 2018, 12:22 AM
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#10
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Jackstands are my life. Group: Members Posts: 3,307 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region |
L-jet should still be within range. Airflow isn't going to increase THAT much with slightly bigger valves and a little extra cam lobe.
Carbs - 40 would be the right size, but actually getting more usable power is going to take lots of tuning. I've had 6 914-4s and the bone stock 2L was by far better overall. |
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| thelogo |
May 18 2018, 12:58 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
Think about it
Just use what is optimized for your motor size cam etc . Dont get me wrong i prefer a minimum of computer controlled dependency when it comes to fuel delivery . But if you daily drive it ,then fuel injection, heat, 87 pump gas makes sense If its just a sunday toy , i like webbers , headers and 91 octane Alot more |
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| Mark Henry |
May 18 2018, 05:53 AM
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#12
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ May 18 2018, 02:22 AM) L-jet should still be within range. Airflow isn't going to increase THAT much with slightly bigger valves and a little extra cam lobe. Airflow has nothing to with it (to a point) it's duration and overlap changes that FI systems can't handle. Stock FI has little tolerance to cam changes. You would need to know what cam you have. Even programmable FI has issues with large duration cams, they produce a very poor vacuum (MPS) signal and many end up running a TPS only system. |
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| Mblizzard |
May 18 2018, 07:53 AM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,033 Joined: 28-January 13 From: Knoxville Tn Member No.: 15,438 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ May 18 2018, 03:53 AM) QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ May 18 2018, 02:22 AM) L-jet should still be within range. Airflow isn't going to increase THAT much with slightly bigger valves and a little extra cam lobe. Airflow has nothing to with it (to a point) it's duration and overlap changes that FI systems can't handle. Stock FI has little tolerance to cam changes. You would need to know what cam you have. Even programmable FI has issues with large duration cams, they produce a very poor vacuum (MPS) signal and many end up running a TPS only system. So true! My current build only gets to about 60 kpa at idle. Got a workable speed density tune but I am also doing a Alpha-N (TPS only) tune. Saw one engine with too big of a cam trying to run stock FI and it just never worked. |
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| Mueller |
May 18 2018, 07:58 AM
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#14
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ May 17 2018, 10:15 PM) I think it may be a substitution for swapping motors.... If you've decided to keep with this motor, but you still feel the need to change your mind about fundamental drivetrain choices ever 30 minutes, this should scratch the itch for the next half-hour... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) --DD I'm close to spending just as much on my engine build (without the carbs) than I paid for the entire car! So the motor is a keeper (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| Mark Henry |
May 18 2018, 09:11 AM
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#15
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
If you are running the WEB FI cam (#73 IIRC) then you are likely OK with Ljet.
Every other cam is really a carb cam and will not work with stock FI. |
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| Chris H. |
May 18 2018, 09:21 AM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4,029 Joined: 2-January 03 From: Chicago 'burbs Member No.: 73 Region Association: Upper MidWest
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Geoff Bleyseng ran L-Jet on his 2.0 so it works but the question is the lumpier cam. I'm not an expert on Type 4 cams.
If you want to go carbs maybe return the electronic distributor setup and just use the stock distributor? Use that cash for some carbs? 40's should work fine on a 1911. |
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| SirAndy |
May 18 2018, 11:08 AM
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#17
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,609 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Mueller @ May 17 2018, 12:02 PM) Been having dreams of dual weber carbs.. FI can be made to look and sound just as cool as a set of new carbs. But the biggest point for me is that i really only spend a few minutes a month looking at my engine compared to the hours of driving. And the FI just simply drives so much better. Smooth running, starts up immediately no matter where i am, at the beach or in the mountains. You are indeed about to step back into the stone ages of automotive technology ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| MarkV |
May 18 2018, 02:52 PM
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#18
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Fear the Jack Stands Group: Members Posts: 1,493 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Sunny Tucson, AZ Member No.: 154 Region Association: None |
I agree modern electronic fuel injection is fantastic.
50 tear old ancient technology D-jet or L-jet isn't really the same thing. I had a 74 L-jet car and it suffered from all of the problems that I see around here. Vacuum leaks, head temp sensors, resistor pack and multi relay pack. It was a pain in the ass to keep it running. It stranded me a couple of times. Current car with carbs never strands me and it runs great. Maybe I got lucky when I jetted them and set them up but I never touch them. If I lived in cold climate and they were hard to start I might feel different. I don't want to work on my car I just want to drive it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
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| Mueller |
May 18 2018, 04:23 PM
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#19
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 18 2018, 10:08 AM) QUOTE(Mueller @ May 17 2018, 12:02 PM) Been having dreams of dual weber carbs.. FI can be made to look and sound just as cool as a set of new carbs. But the biggest point for me is that i really only spend a few minutes a month looking at my engine compared to the hours of driving. And the FI just simply drives so much better. Smooth running, starts up immediately no matter where i am, at the beach or in the mountains. You are indeed about to step back into the stone ages of automotive technology ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Well, you have me convinced to go with a modern EFI , then to stay current I shall add ABS brakes, dual climate control, power steering, power windows , traction control and finally autopilot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) All kidding aside I have read more about carbs and Webers in the last few days than I ever had before. Did you know Mr. Weber was kidnapped and his body never found? They suspect another political party that his party was against. Kind of like Jimmy Hoffa. |
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| ConeDodger |
May 18 2018, 04:37 PM
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#20
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,573 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(Mueller @ May 18 2018, 07:23 PM) QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 18 2018, 10:08 AM) QUOTE(Mueller @ May 17 2018, 12:02 PM) Been having dreams of dual weber carbs.. FI can be made to look and sound just as cool as a set of new carbs. But the biggest point for me is that i really only spend a few minutes a month looking at my engine compared to the hours of driving. And the FI just simply drives so much better. Smooth running, starts up immediately no matter where i am, at the beach or in the mountains. You are indeed about to step back into the stone ages of automotive technology ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Well, you have me convinced to go with a modern EFI , then to stay current I shall add ABS brakes, dual climate control, power steering, power windows , traction control and finally autopilot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) All kidding aside I have read more about carbs and Webers in the last few days than I ever had before. Did you know Mr. Weber was kidnapped and his body never found? They suspect another political party that his party was against. Kind of like Jimmy Hoffa. When my 240Z had triple Weber 44 DCOE carbs that originally only came on Maserati 3000? and Ferrari racers, it ran like someone had stuffed a body in the carb barrels so... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) |
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