 Big Type IV or Suby Swap - Opinions Please |
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| Jengah |
 Jul 1 2018, 11:15 AM
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#1
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Newbie  Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 30-June 18 From: Central Coast, CA Member No.: 22,277 Region Association: Central California  |
I've been lurking for a few months here and could use some help/opinions. I've decided my next project will be a 914 with a extra HP, but can't decide on my route. This would just be a weekend car for twisty roads and occasional track days. I'd like it to be functional so I can still take my wife around in it.
I've had a 914 before (back in H.S.) so I know the car and have shadetree mechanic skills that have helped me maintain/DE my previous fun cars (e30M3, e36M3) so I plan on doing all of the work myself. That being said, I don'nt want to make this unneccesarily challenging (some of you guys are way more patient, skilled, and braver than I am). If I go with a Suby motor, I'll do the NA route. I'm considering either an EJ25 or EZ30. So, the Suby engine is most likely going to have more reliability/last long the higher we get up in HP. It also seems to be the less expensive route. However, it is definitly the slower and more complicated route. Does anyone with experience having tried both engines have opinions and advice on which is better or what the pro/cons are? |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| Steve |
Jul 1 2018, 11:26 AM
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#2
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,589 Joined: 14-June 03 From: Orange County, CA Member No.: 822 Region Association: Southern California 
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I’m not a fan of big 4’s. I had a 2.4 liter big four that grenaded with something different every 10k miles. The cost of big 4’s versus a six versus a Subaru, makes the Subaru the most viable option unless your into LS crate motors.
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| SirAndy |
Jul 1 2018, 11:43 AM
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#3
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,646 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Suby all the way, cheaper, more HP from a stock motor, plenty of parts for them.
The only downside is the radiator ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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| 914forme |
Jul 1 2018, 11:44 AM
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#4
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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I have had all flavors except a V8.
Large Type - 4 I hade a 2.8L unit for a very short while, never again. Subaru EZ30 use the Microsquirt for the EFI. Go with a Subaru MT5, and build the mount using the basics from the Small Car Specialties mount, it is built to convert Vanagons. And the standard 4 cal. mounts up front. Trans hanger will have to be fabricated. Exhaust will need to be fabricated. Shifting is via Zero Decible motorsports and a pick and pull sorted shifter Hydraulic clutch can be done via a simple brake Kent made or another supplier here on the forum. Cooling system, Renegade Hybrids has a proven kit $$$$, or lots here used the Celica GTS rad off Ebay. New untested RAD option is from a Renault Alpine, only a couple of use looking at using that RAD, I have one at my shipping center, need to bring it home and see how well it works. Axles and Transaxles , I like Subaru Gears stuff, then you just have a bolt in option. Others used dutchman and Subaru trans CV and 914 outers. If you want to just get the mechanicals sorted out, then their is always Renegade Hybrids. Brakes, suspension, wheels, are still Porsche 914 / 911 / 944 / Boxster / 996 / 908 / Ferrari 308 / Alfa GTV, etc.... Some even use them calipers from a 3 series BMW. A turbo Subaru from a WRX is not much more complicated of a swap. And you could use the Megasquirt PNP if you want. Get a donor car if you can from CoParts.com is a great place to find the oh so special wrecked vehicle your looking for. Rear End damage would be the best for your donor. Have fun, start a build thread as it keeps me from actually working on mine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) |
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| 914forme |
Jul 1 2018, 11:46 AM
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#5
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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If I where doing it again, I would go LS with a Boxster transaxle, or one from a TDI Passat.
That one is about as easy as gets unless you go wild like Chris has with his build. |
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| Mueller |
Jul 1 2018, 12:00 PM
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#6
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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I'm putting a more or less stock 1.8 /4 back into my 914, with the money spent and it's still not finished I think i could have done a complete n/a Subaru 6 conversion.
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| Porschef |
Jul 1 2018, 01:07 PM
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#7
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How you doin' Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 7-September 10 From: LawnGuyland Member No.: 12,152 Region Association: North East States
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Good question, great debate. I think if you can be satisfied with a 150 hp or so T4, then its a decent option. Going much bigger seems to require some real pricey upgrades/machining/heads/Nickies/cooling/induction/ignition/exhaust
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) That said, keeping water out of the equation is very appealing. |
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| A&P Mech |
Jul 1 2018, 01:41 PM
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 10-September 13 From: United States Member No.: 16,371 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I have run the stock 2.0l, a subaru EJ253 and ez30 in my car. Without question the ez30 is the best of the three setups. It provides a large increase in horsepower and torque without a noticeable change in the way the car handles.
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| Robnxious |
Jul 1 2018, 02:53 PM
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#9
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RobnxiousOne Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 26-October 06 From: Sacramento Member No.: 7,097 Region Association: Northern California |
From what I have been told, the Suby conversion is the most cost effective, though I am pretty sure that any of these conversions spirals out of control very quickly. I have a 2.4 Type IV and I love it, as long as I don't think what I spent for it. A 6 conversion STILL would have been more expensive, but damned if I didn't give it a run for it's money! LOL
But I'll tell you what, it is fun as hell taking that big 4 up through the gears and the powerband on each. It just keeps pulling. Very nice. Haven't driven a Suby, and the only 6 I have been in was an original back in the day, which was underpowered, so my opinion isn't as in depth as others here who have driven and drooled for years before making their choice. What ever you do, you seem to be going about it the right way, by getting as much data as you can before making your choice, since unless money is no object, you will be living with your choice for quite a few years to come |
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| flmont |
Jul 1 2018, 04:17 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 879 Joined: 21-October 08 From: Tucson,Az Member No.: 9,676 Region Association: Southwest Region
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I ended up going Subie because the Big 4 rebuild was just near 7K. for maybe 150 HP. but A lot of maintenance over time, I went with the SVX due to its 230 HP and 240 Lbs of Tq,.but they say you can get close to 250-280 with some upgrades,but that engine is built strong 7 main brg's for a flat 6 I think it can be run pretty hard and still be very reliable and kinda maintenance free,sits low in the chassis so it will handle just fine,..
But a SBC install is so much easier and quicker,hook up 5-6 wires and your driving after radiator mod ,engine mounts are easy to get or make,electric water pump system,but they are heavy 400-500 lbs. unless you go the LS route all aluminum.!!! |
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| mepstein |
Jul 1 2018, 04:34 PM
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#11
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,275 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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The nice thing about the suby swaps is that once they are running, a replacement engine, if needed, is cheap and easy. If you blow up a big four, you pretty much have to start from scratch.
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| Elliot Cannon |
Jul 1 2018, 05:28 PM
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#12
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914 Guru Group: Retired Members Posts: 8,487 Joined: 29-December 06 From: Paso Robles Ca. (Central coast) Member No.: 7,407 Region Association: None 
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Large type IV = more cost less work.
Subie = less cost more work. The Subie is a modern engine with F/I and other good stuff. The problem is, you will then be infected with the "subie curse" forever. BWAHAHAHAAAA. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) |
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| bandjoey |
Jul 1 2018, 06:30 PM
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#13
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bandjoey Group: Members Posts: 4,926 Joined: 26-September 07 From: Bedford Tx Member No.: 8,156 Region Association: Southwest Region |
(Ad Copy from Ebay..no affiliation, info only)
13-16 Scion FR-S FRS 2.0 Engine 39K Miles Automatic Complete 2013 Scion FRS engine with 39K miles complete with wire harness and all accessories ECU, starter, A/C compressor and alternator. engine was professionally removed wires were carefully unplugged, engine is ready to install just plug and play, removed from 2013 wrecked vehicle with automatic transmission,Oil pan will need to be swapped out as it was punctured to drain oil and was fitted with a rubber plug. $2,499.00 Brand: Subaru $200.00 shipping =========================== This is a 4cyl 200 hp motor. Lots of them on EvilBay. Anyone using one of these? Both Subaru BRZ and Toyota Scion use this motor on their little sports car. Not only that but there are several plug and play aftermarket turbo kits advertised. |
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| ConeDodger |
Jul 1 2018, 06:41 PM
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#14
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,591 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 1 2018, 02:43 PM)  And the connections to and from... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) On the Type IV, I’d go no bigger than 2270, but really like the 2056... |
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| 76-914 |
Jul 2 2018, 01:36 PM
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#15
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Repeat Offender & Resident Subaru Antagonist Group: Members Posts: 13,503 Joined: 23-January 09 From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 9,964 Region Association: Southern California
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I've a 2.0, an EZ-30D and a 327-300. No contest; the Subaru EZ-30D. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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| Andyrew |
Jul 2 2018, 02:00 PM
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#16
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(bandjoey @ Jul 1 2018, 05:30 PM) (Ad Copy from Ebay..no affiliation, info only) 13-16 Scion FR-S FRS 2.0 Engine 39K Miles Automatic Complete 2013 Scion FRS engine with 39K miles complete with wire harness and all accessories ECU, starter, A/C compressor and alternator. engine was professionally removed wires were carefully unplugged, engine is ready to install just plug and play, removed from 2013 wrecked vehicle with automatic transmission,Oil pan will need to be swapped out as it was punctured to drain oil and was fitted with a rubber plug. $2,499.00 Brand: Subaru $200.00 shipping =========================== This is a 4cyl 200 hp motor. Lots of them on EvilBay. Anyone using one of these? Both Subaru BRZ and Toyota Scion use this motor on their little sports car. Not only that but there are several plug and play aftermarket turbo kits advertised. It would be a good motor to swap. No bottom end power, but good top end. Been in production 6 years with no changes so thats good news for longevity and availability. |
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| mepstein |
Jul 2 2018, 02:17 PM
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#17
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,275 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jul 2 2018, 04:00 PM) QUOTE(bandjoey @ Jul 1 2018, 05:30 PM) (Ad Copy from Ebay..no affiliation, info only) 13-16 Scion FR-S FRS 2.0 Engine 39K Miles Automatic Complete 2013 Scion FRS engine with 39K miles complete with wire harness and all accessories ECU, starter, A/C compressor and alternator. engine was professionally removed wires were carefully unplugged, engine is ready to install just plug and play, removed from 2013 wrecked vehicle with automatic transmission,Oil pan will need to be swapped out as it was punctured to drain oil and was fitted with a rubber plug. $2,499.00 Brand: Subaru $200.00 shipping =========================== This is a 4cyl 200 hp motor. Lots of them on EvilBay. Anyone using one of these? Both Subaru BRZ and Toyota Scion use this motor on their little sports car. Not only that but there are several plug and play aftermarket turbo kits advertised. It would be a good motor to swap. No bottom end power, but good top end. Been in production 6 years with no changes so thats good news for longevity and availability. the BRZ weighs about 2800lbs so it's engine should be a little happier in a 914. Gets it's max HP at 7K. |
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| bandjoey |
Jul 2 2018, 02:49 PM
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#18
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bandjoey Group: Members Posts: 4,926 Joined: 26-September 07 From: Bedford Tx Member No.: 8,156 Region Association: Southwest Region |
200hp should make the 914 a happy driver car and easy to install.
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| BIGKAT_83 |
Jul 2 2018, 03:16 PM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,798 Joined: 25-January 03 From: Way down south Bogart,GA Member No.: 194 Region Association: South East States
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I'd vote for the Subaru over any type 4 engine. When I did my EG33 car I had less than $1500 in the conversion. That's with a Subaru transaxle and megasquirt. Had the engine and transaxle mounted in the car with the radiator over a weekend.
Took me longer to get the Megasquirt done than it did to mount the engine. I see now that Subarugears are making adapters for the Subaru transaxles to different engines. They even make one for VW type I and Type IV engines. I think if I was doing another conversion I would do a V6 or V8 Audi and use the Audi transaxle. Got a friend that did a Audi V8 to Boxster Car and it seems to work pretty good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Bob |
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| Andyrew |
Jul 2 2018, 04:09 PM
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#20
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(BIGKAT_83 @ Jul 2 2018, 02:16 PM) I think if I was doing another conversion I would do a V6 or V8 Audi and use the Audi transaxle. Got a friend that did a Audi V8 to Boxster Car and it seems to work pretty good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Bob A 4.2 to a 6spd just sounds awesome to me. Their are so many high HP motors out there, but that 4.2 has such a nice exotic sound and redline that I think it would suit a flared 914 just extremely well and be actually usable. Had I done it again I probably would have gone that route instead of my high end 1.8t build. |
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