I've been lurking for a few months here and could use some help/opinions. I've decided my next project will be a 914 with a extra HP, but can't decide on my route. This would just be a weekend car for twisty roads and occasional track days. I'd like it to be functional so I can still take my wife around in it.

I've had a 914 before (back in H.S.) so I know the car and have shadetree mechanic skills that have helped me maintain/DE my previous fun cars (e30M3, e36M3) so I plan on doing all of the work myself. That being said, I don'nt want to make this unneccesarily challenging (some of you guys are way more patient, skilled, and braver than I am). If I go with a Suby motor, I'll do the NA route. I'm considering either an EJ25 or EZ30.

So, the Suby engine is most likely going to have more reliability/last long the higher we get up in HP. It also seems to be the less expensive route. However, it is definitly the slower and more complicated route.

Does anyone with experience having tried both engines have opinions and advice on which is better or what the pro/cons are?

I’m not a fan of big 4’s. I had a 2.4 liter big four that grenaded with something different every 10k miles. The cost of big 4’s versus a six versus a Subaru, makes the Subaru the most viable option unless your into LS crate motors.

Suby all the way, cheaper, more HP from a stock motor, plenty of parts for them.

The only downside is the radiator ...

I have had all flavors except a V8.

Large Type - 4 I hade a 2.8L unit for a very short while, never again.

Subaru EZ30 use the Microsquirt for the EFI. Go with a Subaru MT5, and build the mount using the basics from the Small Car Specialties mount, it is built to convert Vanagons. And the standard 4 cal. mounts up front. Trans hanger will have to be fabricated.

Exhaust will need to be fabricated.

Shifting is via Zero Decible motorsports and a pick and pull sorted shifter

Hydraulic clutch can be done via a simple brake Kent made or another supplier here on the forum.

Cooling system, Renegade Hybrids has a proven kit $$$$, or lots here used the Celica GTS rad off Ebay. New untested RAD option is from a Renault Alpine, only a couple of use looking at using that RAD, I have one at my shipping center, need to bring it home and see how well it works.

Axles and Transaxles , I like Subaru Gears stuff, then you just have a bolt in option. Others used dutchman and Subaru trans CV and 914 outers.

If you want to just get the mechanicals sorted out, then their is always Renegade Hybrids.

Brakes, suspension, wheels, are still Porsche 914 / 911 / 944 / Boxster / 996 / 908 / Ferrari 308 / Alfa GTV, etc.... Some even use them calipers from a 3 series BMW.

A turbo Subaru from a WRX is not much more complicated of a swap. And you could use the Megasquirt PNP if you want.

Get a donor car if you can from CoParts.com is a great place to find the oh so special wrecked vehicle your looking for. Rear End damage would be the best for your donor.

Have fun, start a build thread as it keeps me from actually working on mine

If I where doing it again, I would go LS with a Boxster transaxle, or one from a TDI Passat.

That one is about as easy as gets unless you go wild like Chris has with his build.

I'm putting a more or less stock 1.8 /4 back into my 914, with the money spent and it's still not finished I think i could have done a complete n/a Subaru 6 conversion.

Good question, great debate. I think if you can be satisfied with a 150 hp or so T4, then its a decent option. Going much bigger seems to require some real pricey upgrades/machining/heads/Nickies/cooling/induction/ignition/exhaust



That said, keeping water out of the equation is very appealing.

I have run the stock 2.0l, a subaru EJ253 and ez30 in my car. Without question the ez30 is the best of the three setups. It provides a large increase in horsepower and torque without a noticeable change in the way the car handles.

From what I have been told, the Suby conversion is the most cost effective, though I am pretty sure that any of these conversions spirals out of control very quickly. I have a 2.4 Type IV and I love it, as long as I don't think what I spent for it. A 6 conversion STILL would have been more expensive, but damned if I didn't give it a run for it's money! LOL

But I'll tell you what, it is fun as hell taking that big 4 up through the gears and the powerband on each. It just keeps pulling. Very nice. Haven't driven a Suby, and the only 6 I have been in was an original back in the day, which was underpowered, so my opinion isn't as in depth as others here who have driven and drooled for years before making their choice.

What ever you do, you seem to be going about it the right way, by getting as much data as you can before making your choice, since unless money is no object, you will be living with your choice for quite a few years to come

I ended up going Subie because the Big 4 rebuild was just near 7K. for maybe 150 HP. but A lot of maintenance over time, I went with the SVX due to its 230 HP and 240 Lbs of Tq,.but they say you can get close to 250-280 with some upgrades,but that engine is built strong 7 main brg's for a flat 6 I think it can be run pretty hard and still be very reliable and kinda maintenance free,sits low in the chassis so it will handle just fine,..

But a SBC install is so much easier and quicker,hook up 5-6 wires and your driving after radiator mod ,engine mounts are easy to get or make,electric water pump system,but they are heavy 400-500 lbs.
unless you go the LS route all aluminum.!!!

The nice thing about the suby swaps is that once they are running, a replacement engine, if needed, is cheap and easy. If you blow up a big four, you pretty much have to start from scratch.

Large type IV = more cost less work.

Subie = less cost more work.

The Subie is a modern engine with F/I and other good stuff. The problem is, you will then be infected with the "subie curse" forever. BWAHAHAHAAAA.

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This is a 4cyl 200 hp motor. Lots of them on EvilBay. Anyone using one of these?

Both Subaru BRZ and Toyota Scion use this motor on their little sports car. Not only that but there are several plug and play aftermarket turbo kits advertised.

And the connections to and from...

On the Type IV, I’d go no bigger than 2270, but really like the 2056...

I've a 2.0, an EZ-30D and a 327-300. No contest; the Subaru EZ-30D.

It would be a good motor to swap. No bottom end power, but good top end. Been in production 6 years with no changes so thats good news for longevity and availability.

the BRZ weighs about 2800lbs so it's engine should be a little happier in a 914. Gets it's max HP at 7K.

200hp should make the 914 a happy driver car and easy to install.

I'd vote for the Subaru over any type 4 engine. When I did my EG33 car I had less than $1500 in the conversion. That's with a Subaru transaxle and megasquirt. Had the engine and transaxle mounted in the car with the radiator over a weekend.
Took me longer to get the Megasquirt done than it did to mount the engine.

I see now that Subarugears are making adapters for the Subaru transaxles to different engines. They even make one for VW type I and Type IV engines.

I think if I was doing another conversion I would do a V6 or V8 Audi and use the Audi transaxle. Got a friend that did a Audi V8 to Boxster Car and it seems to work pretty good.

Bob

A 4.2 to a 6spd just sounds awesome to me. Their are so many high HP motors out there, but that 4.2 has such a nice exotic sound and redline that I think it would suit a flared 914 just extremely well and be actually usable.

Had I done it again I probably would have gone that route instead of my high end 1.8t build.

I should do a in car video of my 2.6L in my bug, total monster and it's been totally reliable for 5-6 years now.
Don't know exact mileage, my OD has always been busted, but I'm guessing 4-5000 miles/yr because it's my summer DD.

Only con I've had is it slurps gas, because I can't keep my foot off of the loud pedal.
Noise would be my only other complaint, but that's my A1 magnaflow, not the engine.




with everything but the cooling.

For over 96mm pistons nickies is the only way to go.
I did mine with 102mm JE's and custom pockets, I feel the 102 give a bit more cylinder strength over the 103mm's.

dp

Thanks Stephen. This is a wealth of iniformation. What did you mean by "get the mechanicals sorted out"?

The prices for anything good over 2200cc scares me. It seems in order to bank on reliability of a big bore that you need the Nickies and then that engine is creeping up over $6K, and maybe even up to $9K.

Thanks

What about opinions on transmissions?

I'm in possesion of a 5-speed MT from a 2003 Forester. It only has 60,000K on it.

Is it a better transmission than the 904? Would it be worth using it just becuase it will bolt up to a Suby motor easier? Does it shift faster and easier???

Thanks for all the help.

That trans will work fine for a Subaru conversion. It will bolt right up to almost any Subaru engine you would choose. The stock 914 transmission (901)requires an adapter and has a longer shift throw than the Subaru. Subaru trans is more precise, mainly because it is cable shifted and ~30 years newer. You will need to convert the Subaru trans to 2WD but it's worth the investment. You can sell the center diff that is removed during the 2WD conversion process. Last I checked it was going for $200-$300 on NASIOC.

Nice! Thanks for the advice. Yes - "901" transmission is what I meant. And thanks for the idea of selling the center diff.

Scot

Irreversibly cutting your car up to do a watercooled conversion
Just isnt my style .


So big /4 is where its at for me

I mean why would you want fuel injection


When you could have webbers ?

Why would you want Webers when you can have ITB's and fuel injection...

Subie or big type 4?

Neither.

See Marcus' corvair engine thread. Fits straight in. No body mods required. More than ample power for a lightweight 914.

Mine - with a more mild Corvair engine than Marcus' is easily quicker than my 3.2 Carrera.

What I meant was things like suspension , brakes, steering, and controls all need to be working before you toss an engine in. You have about 5 minutes of blipping the throttle before you get bored and want to drive!

Seems expensive to go the Corvair route, engine adapter w/flywheel must be a $1000 or more plus your stuck with the old 914 transmission.

Unless you get lucky, any used Corvair motor you pick up from the classifieds is going to need a full rebuild...figure a few grand minimum for that correct?

All it takes to put it back is the a bit of to return it back to an air cooled car. After all the hole in my frunk is the same size I would need for an oil cooler for my big 4 or Porsche-6.

Nothing is irreversible. Rust and accident damage do a lot more damage to our cars than putting in a radiator and we fix that too.

Besides, I buy my cars to serve me, not the opposite.

Water cooled, fuel injection... get in, start it up EVERY time, drive from coast to coast without issue. Enjoy the drive, not the headaches. I know many say that's part of the allure, the charm, but for me it's the handling of a road going go cart that is the true joy of owning one of these. Anything that makes that joy less attainable isn't necessary IMHO.

What is the cost of a subi conversion? Just like to know the cost range we are talking.

DIY on the cheap?
DIY quality well sorted mid level build?
DIY quality well sorted high level build?

On the DIY what would be a ballpark guesstimate on total hours?

Pro build on the cheap?
Pro build quality well sorted mid level build?
Pro build quality well sorted high level build?

I saw a '65 bus done with a subi 4 banger on the weekend at a car show, looking at it I'd put it at a DIY cheap to mid range build. Just wondering what it might have cost him.

Why would you NOT want the advantages? Why do all modern cars use FI? If you can't answer that, then enjoy the downfalls of your old carbs (which I respect BTW).

I have a subie conversion with a WRX STI 2.5, and a 2.0 with fuel injection and a 1911 with webers. I like them all. Each one in it's own way is my favorite car to drive.

Ross (rnellums) and his friend did a 6 cyl./manual trans Suby build in 30 days. I drove it and it moved well! It needed cosmetics but it was running great. 76-914 (Kent) has a well sorted, almost factory type build with a Suby 6 including a/c and real heat. Drives like it came that way. Cost is relative but my running 1.7 was around 2k and my donor car with only 108k was 1500.00 complete and it drove fine - almost hated to cut it up. Your personal time is dollars only you can justify. It's called fun for me and it's a chick magnet to have a cool hobby... at least that's what the girlfriend says!

Mark I will try - low end $200 American dollars using a Subaru XT FWD 5-speed. Pretty easy swap if you for some fabrication skills.

Middle of the road 3-5K seems very normal

Top end what makes it a top end build?

So I can use an EG33 because that is what I have and understand.

Turbo system $2000
Oiling system between $500 - $4000 dry sump is expensive......
low compression pistons - $1000
EFI Chip mods $400 to high end $4000
Seals and all the other crap another $2-$500

Or ~$11500

This does not include the transmission etc....

A Jake 2270 is 15,000 last time I checked.

[quote name='914forme' date='Jul 3 2018, 02:11 PM' post='2625784']
[quote name='thelogo' post='2625631' date='Jul 3 2018, 03:02 AM']
Irreversibly cutting your car up to do a watercooled conversion
Just isnt my style .
[/quote]

All it takes to put it back is the a bit of to return it back to an air cooled car.









Ok , let me know when a guy around here does that with his concourse car , then ill be convinced

Somebody get this guy a 996

I personally think that at wot webbers are superior to all but the most






Exotic fuel rails . Talk about about a contradiction in terms

[quote name='thelogo' date='Jul 3 2018, 06:29 PM' post='2625842']
[quote name='914forme' date='Jul 3 2018, 02:11 PM' post='2625784']
[quote name='thelogo' post='2625631' date='Jul 3 2018, 03:02 AM']
Irreversibly cutting your car up to do a watercooled conversion
Just isnt my style .
[/quote]

All it takes to put it back is the a bit of to return it back to an air cooled car.









Ok , let me know when a guy around here does that with his concourse car , then ill be convinced
[/quote]


Tomrev did a Honda V6 conversion to a verified 20K mile 914. If you can afford it, start with the newest or nicest example you can find.

[quote name='thelogo' date='Jul 3 2018, 09:29 PM' post='2625842']
[quote name='914forme' date='Jul 3 2018, 02:11 PM' post='2625784']
[quote name='thelogo' post='2625631' date='Jul 3 2018, 03:02 AM']
Irreversibly cutting your car up to do a watercooled conversion
Just isnt my style .
[/quote]

All it takes to put it back is the a bit of to return it back to an air cooled car.

Ok , let me know when a guy around here does that with his concourse car , then ill be convinced
[/quote]


That one is easy or maybe it is too easy. Lots of 914 on here that get brought back from a far worse fate than a conversion.

From this:
Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

All documented right here

And that car was far worse than some simple bolt ins that other have done to their cars.

If it's a Concours car, there's no reason to do an engine swap, right?? So kind of a ridiculous statement. These cars that are being converted usually have lots of challenges to begin with and instead of dumping untold thousands to make it "Concours ready", they want to have the driving experience that wasn't available at that time. I've had guys dump on me for not keeping my 1.7 stock and totally restoring it because it'll lose it's value.... tell that to Rod Emory...

To quote alec baldwin in the cooler
You dont fuck with paradise""
Big/4 is shangri-la for me .
Cause it was cheap effective and i didnt change a thing on the rest of the car


If i had to choose a water cooled engine it would either be a 2.3 out of a ranger or a good old 289v8
If your gonna pump water your going to gain weight





Big /4 vs 4 or /6 subaru

Which one is the lightest weight

Then there's your winner



Scale just dont lie

Not sure if anyone has tried this yet, but if we're talking bang for your buck, why not the Ford 2.7 Ecoboost...325hp right outta the gate. Or the 3.5 for even more ponies...I think Kennedy already makes the adapter for that one. These engines are easily acquired with minimal miles for 3-4k.

I like having the OEM storage space up front
I like having the OEM storage place at the back
With anything other than an air cooled engine I lose at quite a lot of at least one of these.
That left me with the simple question as to which more powerful air cooled engine represented value for money (and, not unrelated to that, which I could do myself).
I don't need a 3-500rwhp street legal race car.
150-odd HPs is good enough for (boring old) me.

https://youtu.be/s33dP0ETrCo


Really listen to this guy , thats the same way i feel about
My aircooled type 4