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> 914 Body In White, chassis fixtures being made
McMark
post Jul 30 2018, 11:39 AM
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Well, I started on this path a long time ago. Back in 2011, I pick up a Celette bench on Craigslist. I rented fixtures a few times, but along the way Celette moved everything to a newer setup/system and trashed the old fixtures.

Last year I was able to get the new style adapters but would still need to rent fixtures. So it was nice to have the capability, but rental fees meant that expediency was critical. For a project like SirAndy's 914-6 there will be a lot of measuring, checking, cutting, welding, etc. That translates to a lot of time on the bench, and the less I feel the need to rush, the better. When straightening a chassis, it's critical that you have a plan and make pulls and adjustments in the correct order.

Restoration Design just started carrying their own set of fixtures that are compatible with what I have now. They had the early 911 fixtures, but thankfully they jumped on the 914 next. So I just placed my order for these. Now I'll have everything in house to put cars up on fixtures for straightening, major rust repair, and/or cage work. This is a huge development for Original Customs.

I've always done rust repair, but this is the first time that I'll start offering a 'chassis restoration service' for both individuals and other shops. So anyone, anywhere can ship their chassis here and get back a solid and straight body, ready to build on. I'll also be on the lookout for suitable cars to straighten/repair and sell ready to run, 'off the shelf'.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif) I can't wait to get started, then add early 911 and 356 fixtures...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.restoration-design.com-419-1532972340.1.jpg)
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Andyrew
post Aug 2 2018, 08:02 PM
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Spooling.... Please wait
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Must had been another guy that I remember.
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McMark
post Aug 3 2018, 02:02 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

They're HERE!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/monkeydance.gif)

I have to finish up a 2.3 engine I'm building next week, but you can be sure I'll be playing with these after hours. Already have my Aubergine car up on the bench, so I'm gonna check that first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)


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SirAndy
post Aug 3 2018, 02:09 PM
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IronHillRestorations
post Aug 3 2018, 02:16 PM
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Beeyooteeful!
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peteyd
post Aug 3 2018, 05:52 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
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rick 918-S
post Aug 14 2018, 11:24 AM
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Hey nice rack! -Celette
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Nice going Mark and Andy! Thanks for getting the hard work getting these to the market Peter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)
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seanery
post Aug 15 2018, 12:53 AM
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waiting to rebuild whitey!
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pretty bad ass Mark!
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ConeDodger
post Aug 15 2018, 01:03 AM
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QUOTE(seanery @ Aug 15 2018, 03:53 AM) *

pretty bad ass Mark!


Say... didn’t you run off and join the circus? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
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SirAndy
post Oct 23 2018, 02:42 PM
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seanery
post Oct 23 2018, 03:48 PM
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waiting to rebuild whitey!
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Man, that sure was a long time ago!!

12 years later, I've been missing my 914 fix. I've been touring with concerts and other shows pretty much constantly since then. I need to plan for the future. Getting Eric to build me a car is part of that plan! =)


QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Aug 15 2018, 03:03 AM) *

QUOTE(seanery @ Aug 15 2018, 03:53 AM) *

pretty bad ass Mark!


Say... didn’t you run off and join the circus? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
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Andyrew
post Oct 23 2018, 08:11 PM
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Spooling.... Please wait
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Oct 23 2018, 01:42 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)


I don't like the looks of this..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)
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SirAndy
post Oct 24 2018, 12:36 AM
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QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 23 2018, 07:11 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Oct 23 2018, 01:42 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I don't like the looks of this..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

I'll let @McMark chime in if he wants to, lets just say there have been a few "issues" with those fixtures, which has in turn significantly slowed progress on my /6 build ...
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Cairo94507
post Oct 24 2018, 06:54 AM
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I am fully aware of the delays and setbacks that happen when you tackle one of these builds. Of course having to do doing something over (twice) is problematic for progress too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)
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McMark
post Nov 5 2018, 07:30 AM
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Sorry guys, it's been a crazy few months. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) But here's what I've learned since my last post.

Celette has nearly no real support for the 914. The only fully developed fixtures died when they released the MZ Tower setup. There are now only two 914 fixture sets in the Celette inventory: 1 in the US and 1 in Europe. I've seen the US set firsthand and I've seen a copy of the Euro set, and neither set is 100% correct.

This is what I was told when I inquired about ordering an official set for purchase.
QUOTE
"I put out a request for the Porsche 914 fixtures 2131.300, but the team in France notified me that [the US rental fixture set] was only a prototype and was never finished. I asked them what I had to offer you and at this time there is nothing I can offer for sale.


So I rented the US set and have it here now. I've attached my Aubergine car and everything seemed to line up really well -- until I got to the shock towers. And it took me awhile to confidently decide that this set is incorrect in the shock tower fixtures. The definitive evidence was that the official US fixture set was indicating that my Aubergine car was essentially perfectly straight at the front A-arm mounts, rear A-arm mounts, rear trailing arm mounts (inner and outer), transmission mounts, BUT the front shock tower needed to go up by 6.5mm and the rear needed to go down by a whopping 16mm. These numbers are HUGE considering that ALL the other fixtures line up and this chassis shows no signs of accident damage. And finally, simply consider what sort of accident it would take to move ONLY the two front shock towers down 1/4" and the rears up over 1/2" without affecting the rest of the suspension alignment. It's impossible.

SO ANYONE WHO HAS ANY SHOP THAT RENTS THE 914 CELETTE FIXTURES MUST BE AWARE THAT THESE FOUR FIXTURES ARE INCORRECT AND SHOULD NOT BE USED.

After all of this roundabout effort and research, I've decided that the only way I can be confident in my Celette bench and fixtures is to build a set myself. I'm using the official US fixture set and my Aubergine car to make my set. I will be using modern technology to document each piece. Each fixture will be made up of multiple smaller pieces which I will have laser cut. Once I have all the building block parts, I'll remove fixtures one by one and assemble the component parts on the bench, in place. I'll then confirm accuracy of my piece before moving on to the next piece. When everything else is done I will document the shock tower fixtures as they are, before making the modifications necessary to make them correct. I know other people are taking a similar approach.

This is certainly not how I, or anyone else, thought this process was going to go. There were a lot of hopeful progress, but in the end these fixtures are too critical for me to accept anything that isn't quite right. In order for me to be fully confident in my work, I need to be fully confident in my fixtures. So I have to make my own, and I have to like how they turn out, before I can move on to Andy's car.
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Cairo94507
post Nov 5 2018, 07:56 AM
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Truly a class act. Andy's car is in good hands and all members in the future will benefit from your hard work and attention to detail if/when the time/need comes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Krieger
post Nov 5 2018, 08:34 AM
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Good work Mark! What a pain. Maybe you could make your own sets to sell/rent. Maybe just the two defective ones?
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rick 918-S
post Nov 5 2018, 05:48 PM
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Hey nice rack! -Celette
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Nice research Mark. Guess I am back to building a set too then. I have a rust free straight car to work off of too. Really in most cases a guy doesn't need heavy fixtures designed for withstanding the pulling forces of a collision repair. Most of what we do is related to rust repair and withstanding the pulling forces of a welding process. We all know how our chassis can move around while welding.
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mepstein
post Nov 5 2018, 06:01 PM
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Wouldn’t the front towers be the same as the 911 fixtures.
Can you modify the existing fixtures rather than making new ones.
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McMark
post Nov 6 2018, 07:09 AM
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QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 5 2018, 06:48 PM) *
Nice research Mark. Guess I am back to building a set too then. I have a rust free straight car to work off of too. Really in most cases a guy doesn't need heavy fixtures designed for withstanding the pulling forces of a collision repair. Most of what we do is related to rust repair and withstanding the pulling forces of a welding process. We all know how our chassis can move around while welding.

Well, once I build mine and use them I was planning to just ship/bring everything your way. The MZ Towers make building these fixtures relatively easy. But building fixtures from scratch would be a larger endeavor. I know you're certainly up to the task, but just borrow mine when I'm done.



QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 5 2018, 07:01 PM) *
Wouldn’t the front towers be the same as the 911 fixtures.
Can you modify the existing fixtures rather than making new ones.

Well, remember these aren't made by Porsche people. So unfortunately, the answer is no. The setup is approached differently (see pics below), and there's no reason to expect that the 'neutral' position of the chassis, over the bench, is the same height or fore/aft location. In fact, just looking at the Celette diagrams I can tell that the 911 chassis will sit closer to the bench than a 914 chassis, which means nothing will interchange.

911 Front Shock Tower
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914 Front Shock Tower
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rick 918-S
post Nov 6 2018, 07:24 AM
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Hey nice rack! -Celette
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QUOTE(McMark @ Nov 6 2018, 08:09 AM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 5 2018, 06:48 PM) *
Nice research Mark. Guess I am back to building a set too then. I have a rust free straight car to work off of too. Really in most cases a guy doesn't need heavy fixtures designed for withstanding the pulling forces of a collision repair. Most of what we do is related to rust repair and withstanding the pulling forces of a welding process. We all know how our chassis can move around while welding.

Well, once I build mine and use them I was planning to just ship/bring everything your way. The MZ Towers make building these fixtures relatively easy. But building fixtures from scratch would be a larger endeavor. I know you're certainly up to the task, but just borrow mine when I'm done.


Cool,

I have rent money waiting. I will be laid up for awhile anyway. Gettin my own fixture installed the end of the month. LMK your projected time line. I have Juergen's car disassembled and ready to bench.

BTW: Need my windshield jig? I can send it to you.
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