Holley EFI, Not just for American 4BBL carb replacements anymore... Options

[horizontally-opposed]

So I am hearing this is a very attractive setup for 4+ cylinder engines, and can be made to work with ITB setups for a flat six, such as PMO's. The 4BBL pricing sure is right, and it's said to be "self tuning" and a dream to work with/on.

Anyone have any experience of this, or know of a Porsche engine running it?

[VaccaRabite]

I know of a corvair 6 (in a bus) that was running off a Holly. It worked, but wasn't perfect. It ran rich IIRC.

Zach

[Andyrew]

I would much prefer MS3 Pro EVO. Im considering this system for the 914 as I still cant figure out my hot start issue and its been almost 2 years.

Way to much cool stuff with this system.

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ms3pro-...agement-system/

[Chris914n6]

I've been eyeballing one of these for Dads old Chevy: Go EFI 4 600HP System with timing control.

I wouldn't do a center mount FI on a 914, runners are too wide, plus it's backwards engineering. Essentially it's TBI from the 80s.

For the 914n6 I've got my eye on ECUMASTER EMU BLACK STANDALONE ECU. Overkill but pre-programmed for the VQ35 swap. A little cheaper without the Autotune.
I've read the DIYEFI/MS3 tech is not up to today's standards.

[burton73]

I've been eyeballing one of these for Dads old Chevy: Go EFI 4 600HP System with timing control.

I wouldn't do a center mount FI on a 914, runners are too wide, plus it's backwards engineering. Essentially it's TBI from the 80s.

For the 914n6 I've got my eye on ECUMASTER EMU BLACK STANDALONE ECU. Overkill but pre-programmed for the VQ35 swap. A little cheaper without the Autotune.
I've read the DIYEFI/MS3 tech is not up to today's standards.

I have been looking at these for by V8 car.

Bob B

[Andyrew]

That Goefi is an awesome looking piece of hardware! Reminds me of the Holley Projection units but with modern tunability.

[horizontally-opposed]

When I think about EFI, I like the idea of the "who" behind the system.

Any company can go out, but I put more stock in Holley or something like Andrew pointed out (the MS3 unit). I think about some of the old Haltech or other random systems, and trying to keep a 368 or 486 laptop going to support them.

Only way I'd do the Holley or MS3 is if I could use ITBs made for a flat six (i.e. PMOs). But the prices of these units are getting pretty interesting compared to Motec systems of not long ago—even the "budget" ganged four-cylinder Motec setups where you controlled a flat six like an inline three. Now we are seeing price points that make a conversion from a good, sellable set of 911 Webers pretty interesting.

It isn't a bad time to be a car enthusiast...

[jd74914]

For the 914n6 I've got my eye on ECUMASTER EMU BLACK STANDALONE ECU. Overkill but pre-programmed for the VQ35 swap. A little cheaper without the Autotune.
I've read the DIYEFI/MS3 tech is not up to today's standards.

The ECUMaster stuff looks quite good. I'm dying to try it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Their sales and engineering organizations are pretty engaged with consumers (especially the guys at ECUMaster USA) too which is really nice.

When I think about EFI, I like the idea of the "who" behind the system.

Any company can go out, but I put more stock in Holley or something like Andrew pointed out (the MS3 unit). I think about some of the old Haltech or other random systems, and trying to keep a 368 or 486 laptop going to support them.

Who is good, but AFAIK the Holley system is quite under-performing compared to almost everything else available. They're famed as a carb company, not an ECU manufacturer. IMHO you're better off going with component from someone who specialized in the engine controls/data acquisition market.

Companies like Haltech are still around and make good products-it's a somewhat unrealistic expectation that a company will allow backwards ECU compatibility with all of their software package changes. You face the same issues in the industrial world with needing old computers to talk to ancient electronics, even those with companies still in existence making high end products.

[Andyrew]

Companies like Haltech are still around and make good products-it's a somewhat unrealistic expectation that a company will allow backwards ECU compatibility with all of their software package changes. You face the same issues in the industrial world with needing old computers to talk to ancient electronics, even those with companies still in existence making high end products.

One of the main reasons why I like MS so much. They do a LOT to make sure they have backwards and forwards compatability. Its just the hardware itself that they change to make the packaging better and have a more "All in one" unit. Thats really the only difference in their systems.

Microsquirt is a hair different, but its designed to be a simple fully enclosed unit for cheaper than anything else.

[Mark Henry]

So this is for a /6? What is the cars use and your budget,
Many systems can get spendy fast. DIY isn't too bad, but probuilt/installed and dyno time gets into big bucks.

I'd stick with a known system, then you have lots of help if you run into a snag.

For MS you likely can get the maps for a similar engine build. I'd go over to the pelican parts forum and check out some of the EFI builds.

Clewett uses TEC systems.
SDS is likely the easiest system to tune for the amateur who can't afford dyno time or the learning curve.

All three have been around for ages.

[ConeDodger]

When I think about EFI, I like the idea of the "who" behind the system.

Any company can go out, but I put more stock in Holley or something like Andrew pointed out (the MS3 unit). I think about some of the old Haltech or other random systems, and trying to keep a 368 or 486 laptop going to support them.

Only way I'd do the Holley or MS3 is if I could use ITBs made for a flat six (i.e. PMOs). But the prices of these units are getting pretty interesting compared to Motec systems of not long ago—even the "budget" ganged four-cylinder Motec setups where you controlled a flat six like an inline three. Now we are seeing price points that make a conversion from a good, sellable set of 911 Webers pretty interesting.

It isn't a bad time to be a car enthusiast...

Pete, I still recall our conversation a decade or so back at that drive-in in Napa Valley. You were right of course, the SDS system I used was only a bit better than a well tuned carb. Perhaps in its defense, it was controlling ITB’s that had massive vacuum fluctuations. Your argument, that the factory systems were so much more sophisticated was on my mind when I decided to go with the factory system on the 3.2 that ultimately found its way into my car.
I do think the MS3 described by Andyrew is a much more advanced system and it’s hard to believe SDS is in the same price range. I plan on using this system with the new engine I’m putting in my 240Z.

[914pipe]

I'm going to experiment with Speeduino, that works with the TunerStudio software. I already bought v0.3 version with the VR conditioner (waiting arrival) and is well supported in the forum. The complete thing for less than 200 bucks. Have 4 ignition and 4 injection outputs and support sequential ignition/injection. Anyway I'm going to use it in a wasted spark configuration, since I have a Subaru 6 (semi sequential).

If you want to know more, here is the link.

https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino

https://speeduino.com/forum/app.php/page/buy

[Mark Henry]

When I think about EFI, I like the idea of the "who" behind the system.

Any company can go out, but I put more stock in Holley or something like Andrew pointed out (the MS3 unit). I think about some of the old Haltech or other random systems, and trying to keep a 368 or 486 laptop going to support them.

Only way I'd do the Holley or MS3 is if I could use ITBs made for a flat six (i.e. PMOs). But the prices of these units are getting pretty interesting compared to Motec systems of not long ago—even the "budget" ganged four-cylinder Motec setups where you controlled a flat six like an inline three. Now we are seeing price points that make a conversion from a good, sellable set of 911 Webers pretty interesting.

It isn't a bad time to be a car enthusiast...

Pete, I still recall our conversation a decade or so back at that drive-in in Napa Valley. You were right of course, the SDS system I used was only a bit better than a well tuned carb. Perhaps in its defense, it was controlling ITB’s that had massive vacuum fluctuations. Your argument, that the factory systems were so much more sophisticated was on my mind when I decided to go with the factory system on the 3.2 that ultimately found its way into my car.
I do think the MS3 described by Andyrew is a much more advanced system and it’s hard to believe SDS is in the same price range. I plan on using this system with the new engine I’m putting in my 240Z.

Did you try the SDS in TPS only? Solved all my issues.
You have to go into the hidden coding to change it.

[Mark Henry]

I'm going to experiment with Speeduino, that works with the TunerStudio software. I already bought v0.3 version with the VR conditioner (waiting arrival) and is well supported in the forum. The complete thing for less than 200 bucks. Have 4 ignition and 4 injection outputs and support sequential ignition/injection. Anyway I'm going to use it in a wasted spark configuration, since I have a Subaru 6 (semi sequential).

If you want to know more, here is the link.

https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino

https://speeduino.com/forum/app.php/page/buy

For cheap there's also a pro system out of south africa called gotech MFI.
About $500 for a complete system (ECU and harness) includes shipping. They warned me shipping was slow, 6-8 weeks.

http://www.gotech.co.za/
They also have a FB page. https://www.facebook.com/gotechecu/

[Matty900]

I am running a microsquirt (MS2) system with ITBs and a wasted spark. I am pretty happy with it so far. It has a pretty steep learning curve but we are starting to get all of the kinks worked out. Some of the components have had issues, but I was able to go to the local auto parts store and get what I needed. Hopefully we will be able to get it on the dyno next week for some fine tuning.

[914four]

Anyone using this Magasquirt package from the Dub Shop? http://thedubshop.com/dual-throttle-body-f...gnition-type-4/

Looks like a nice complete package but seems a bit pricey.

Kelvin

[914forme]

I'm going to experiment with Speeduino, that works with the TunerStudio software. I already bought v0.3 version with the VR conditioner (waiting arrival) and is well supported in the forum. The complete thing for less than 200 bucks. Have 4 ignition and 4 injection outputs and support sequential ignition/injection. Anyway I'm going to use it in a wasted spark configuration, since I have a Subaru 6 (semi sequential).

If you want to know more, here is the link.

https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino

https://speeduino.com/forum/app.php/page/buy

For cheap there's also a pro system out of south africa called gotech MFI.
About $500 for a complete system (ECU and harness) includes shipping. They warned me shipping was slow, 6-8 weeks.

http://www.gotech.co.za/
They also have a FB page. https://www.facebook.com/gotechecu/

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) have one new in box if some one wants to give it a try. Pretty simple.

BTW, SDS has always had great support for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

MS3 Pro is interesting

If I had the $$$$$ I would just order up a Bosch Motorsport unit.

[ConeDodger]

I'm going to experiment with Speeduino, that works with the TunerStudio software. I already bought v0.3 version with the VR conditioner (waiting arrival) and is well supported in the forum. The complete thing for less than 200 bucks. Have 4 ignition and 4 injection outputs and support sequential ignition/injection. Anyway I'm going to use it in a wasted spark configuration, since I have a Subaru 6 (semi sequential).

If you want to know more, here is the link.

https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino

https://speeduino.com/forum/app.php/page/buy

For cheap there's also a pro system out of south africa called gotech MFI.
About $500 for a complete system (ECU and harness) includes shipping. They warned me shipping was slow, 6-8 weeks.

http://www.gotech.co.za/
They also have a FB page. https://www.facebook.com/gotechecu/

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) have one new in box if some one wants to give it a try. Pretty simple.

BTW, SDS has always had great support for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

MS3 Pro is interesting

If I had the $$$$$ I would just order up a Bosch Motorsport unit.

No one is criticizing the SDS support. It’s the function I was talking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

A number of good options. I would probably choose any adaptable (or stock) Bosch Motronic system over any of them, but that is rarely feasible.

Hear the criticism about Holley's system, but still interested. Yes, it's a carburetor company, but perhaps it's a solid company that's seen the future and is bringing a good product to market—learning from the existing systems. At the very least, my mechanic and a colleague of his he trusts seem very interested. So, too, am I. Especially if it presents a solid system that's an alternative to carbs or Motec. Whether it's better than MS or the others is the real question. Not seeing the answer to that here, but it may be too early for that. And the good news is that there are at least two systems detailed here that do appeal to me....

[914forme]

No one is criticizing the SDS support. It’s the function I was talking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Did not wish imply that you where Rob. I am just saying they have been great support for a basic system. I also followed your issues and wondered what was up with it. My guess is the ITBs and vacuum pulses.

I am not one to believe you need more than you might need. So it is neat to get all the "features" but if you only need to control the ignition and fuel timing then, the simpler the better.

I would drop one of the Holley systems on my boat, but then it has a Merc Drive and Engine that is really a GM small block so why not. Not sure I am ready to put a Holley in my Porsche.