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> New 914 owner! Already dreaming of engine swaps..., What would you guys think about a 4A-GE blacktop in a 914?
betz
post Nov 28 2018, 12:45 AM
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QUOTE(Chi-town @ Nov 27 2018, 04:58 PM) *

FA20 is a joke. Underpowered, unreliable when used hard, and a small fortune to build correctly. Oh and still no reliable upgrade for the oil pump in the front cover of other than dry sumping it.

And don't get me started on the DIT version (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)


The point of this motor is that I won't be building it. I want 200hp specifically.
It would be hard for me to believe an EJ253 is a better motor in any way compared to an FA. Not to mention the FA is light weight and is even shorter than the standard H4 motors, bringing the center of gravity way down.

So considering use on a mostly street car, I don't see how it would be a bad option, unless I want something to bounce off the limiter continuously. Then sure, I'd probably want a K20. And in that case I probably wouldn't mind cutting up my trunk as much when having to make it fit.
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Chi-town
post Nov 28 2018, 12:56 AM
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The EJ series engines even N/A are cheap and easy to make power with and plenty of parts to do so. I've gotten 200hp out of an EJ251 but not without a build and aftermarket ECU.

The K series is still the #1 bang for the buck.

If I build a second car it'll probably be a K24 or F22
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betz
post Apr 23 2019, 04:32 PM
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Welp, after a half a year of deliberation I've come full circle back to the 4A-GE blacktop.

I found a mint one for about $1200, aka, for less than a K motor, fully dressed with wiring harness ECU etc and about 60k miles. Here it is:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-22593-1556058757.1.jpg)

Reasons I chose it over the K motor?

ITB's. I'm sorry but I am a total sap for ITB's. I looked into ITB's on a K motor, It would be over triple the cost and way too much power for my little 914. I want to keep it at max 200 hp. Fitting it to a "regular" 4A-GE requires an adapter but would definitely be cheaper than the K. But I would still need to run an aftermarket ECU. I want this project to be, once the motor is running, it's running perfect. Tuning can be a total headache and expensive. Also, packaging wise, the ITB's coming out the side works super well in the rectangular 914 engine bay.

Size. Dimension wise, the little 1.6L 4A is smaller in every dimension. Online I found it was 21" from bottom of oil pan to top of valve cover. That's shorter than an EJ. the K motor is around 26". Barely will clear the engine cover.

Vision. I have an, erm... theme, in mind for my 914 once it's done. I will be embracing my little Toyota motor, I'll leave it at that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I appreciate everyone's advice and I considered everything about this build but in the end I must follow my heart on this one or else I won't even have any motivation.

New direction also, I will be starting with the engine first, so I don't get the car looking all pretty just to cut it up again.

I plan on starting a build thread once I have some stuff to post, so stay tuned!
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rhodyguy
post Apr 24 2019, 12:42 PM
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What is the timing belt interval for that engine? I'd put one in before the install and forget about it.
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Chi-town
post Apr 24 2019, 04:43 PM
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That's not a mint one, that's your standard JDM importer spraying the whole thing down with clear coat. If that's where you got it there's no way it has 60k on it unless you got the front clip with the odometer to prove it. Most of those engines come out of 100k+ cars.

Contact Grant at Battle Garage for all the stuff you'll need to replace on it. He knows his 20v and stocks most of the hard to get parts.
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betz
post Apr 24 2019, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE(Chi-town @ Apr 24 2019, 03:43 PM) *

That's not a mint one, that's your standard JDM importer spraying the whole thing down with clear coat. If that's where you got it there's no way it has 60k on it unless you got the front clip with the odometer to prove it. Most of those engines come out of 100k+ cars.

Contact Grant at Battle Garage for all the stuff you'll need to replace on it. He knows his 20v and stocks most of the hard to get parts.


Eh, maybe, clear coating seems unnecessary shady though. He did show me a pic of the engine just when it was crammed with all the other engines and it still looked pretty good although dustier. I don't see how they could get rid of all the oil spots and make it looks so nice just with clear coat. I feel like he just wiped it down with armor all or something but I was more looking at where all the gaskets meet and in all the crevasses where you would see some real problems that simple green wouldn't solve. As it stands I'll probably replace anything that's sensible to replace like the belts and
probably timing belt and water pump gasket etc.

In any case I've conceded this car is very far from a daily driver and I am putting what is still a Toyota engine into it. I'm not really too concerned.

Thank you for the source for parts though, another reason I became less scared of this motor was that the aftermarket seems quite good and you can still find parts at reasonable prices even though it's a JDM motor. Also a lot of US 4A GE parts seem compatible or 4A FE so as long as you're a little resourceful it shouldn't be too bad to get stuff for it.
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RolinkHaus
post Apr 24 2019, 05:50 PM
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How about a German engine?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
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Chris914n6
post Apr 24 2019, 06:02 PM
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You want to do all the usual maintenance items before the install. All the rubber will age out at 10 years, including the timing belt. Crank seal and specially the rear main. Water pump & pulleys are unknowns at this point. Do you really want to possibly drop the motor in a few months to save 100$ today?

Also pop the valve cover & oil pan to look for sludge & other signs of issues.

Don't let the cleanliness fool you, something has been leaking....
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betz
post Apr 24 2019, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE(RolinkHaus @ Apr 24 2019, 04:50 PM) *


German engines aren't missing from my life. Individual throttles are, haha. I did consider megasquirting a Type IV and running individual throttles, but then I'd really need to build the type IV and I really don't want to go down the engine building rabbit hole again. No interest in the VW 1.8T. Price of the flat 6 kills any interest. A VR6 would be okay but I already have my BMW I6. If someone gave me a free S14... Yeah no I'd just put it in my E30, lol.

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Apr 24 2019, 05:02 PM) *

You want to do all the usual maintenance items before the install. All the rubber will age out at 10 years, including the timing belt. Crank seal and specially the rear main. Water pump & pulleys are unknowns at this point. Do you really want to possibly drop the motor in a few months to save 100$ today?

Also pop the valve cover & oil pan to look for sludge & other signs of issues.

Don't let the cleanliness fool you, something has been leaking....


Of course I'm popping open the valve cover, to see those glorious 5V / cylinder! Haha.
I definitely plan on refreshing the engine while it's on a stand and everything is easy to get to, though. Crossing my fingers everything looks clean and well maintained..
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2mAn
post May 14 2019, 04:38 PM
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trying to see how long I can go without a 914
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QUOTE(betz @ Nov 6 2018, 05:19 PM) *

Thanks for all of the welcomes! I hardly got that on r3vlimited, haha.



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)

QUOTE(betz @ Nov 15 2018, 03:26 PM) *


Mechanical engineering courses don't teach jack about building an engine or anything really useful in the real world for that matter


my thermodynamics class was about the time all of my daydreaming finally told me I was in the wrong major... 15 years later I graduated with a BS degree haha

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Nov 26 2018, 11:22 PM) *

I'd call Jake Raby and get his opinion.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)


so, Ben have you driven it yet?..
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)
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Bleyseng
post May 15 2019, 07:35 AM
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QUOTE(betz @ Nov 8 2018, 05:54 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Nov 8 2018, 03:12 PM) *

Lots of 914 guys around you... Why dont you go for a ride in a few different cars? I'll have mine on the road in a couple months and your welcome to feel a laggy 500hp big turbo 4 motor. Mueller should be getting his on the road shortly after he finishes his small to do list (BUILD DAY?????) and thats a Honda v6 motor..


Honestly I wouldnt bother putting any motor in a 914 that didnt at least have 200hp that wasnt a type 4 or 911 motor...

100hp feels pretty slow. 140hp feels quick, 180hp feels Plenty quick. But that 200hp mark is where things really start to get FUN. Below that just about any modern car on the street will be faster..


I would absolutely love to check out some other 914's!
Don't get me wrong, I will be powing around in that type 4 for some time before I get down into a swap. I have not done all my research on built type 4's, but it seems like everyone recommends that Jake Raby kit which is like $9k. I get that it's an all in one kit, but seriously? That's some serious dough.

As far as horsepower goes, I don't know if I totally agree even when talking swaps. I much more heavily consider the character and feeling the motor gives you over pretty much anything else. I'm not going to race it, at least not for serious competition. It's entirely for fun. That's why the 4AGE sounded better to me than a K series. Shoot I almost want to put a Busso V6 in the thing. But obviously I have to consider having an actual realizable goal.

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Nov 8 2018, 03:35 PM) *


Oh, and any time you're doing the first swap of motor X into a 914, you will want to measure and measure and measure and measure. Some engines that would seem to be natural for swaps (928 V8 engines, 944 engines, some others, even four-bangers) actually do not fit without some fairly significant mods. The firewall on the 914 tilts back at a noticeable angle, and that can cause fitment problems for taller engines. The firewall can be moved, the whole drivetrain can be shifted aft in the car, and other things can be done, but you will definitely want to figure out if any of those are needed first.

--DD


I will definitely keep this in mind. Yet another reason I should choose a domestic motor. So I can go down to a local dismantler and take a bunch of measurements before I make any rash decisions.


For a built type 4 just buy the Raby cam 9990 kit, Len's 2.0L AA heads w/44/38 valves, 96mm pistons and use 2.0L Djet or 44 Webers. That's 125-130 hp for about $4-5K. You can rev it to 6500rpms and tons of lightweight HP plus it's plenty streetable for just driving the damn thing around. Then you have money to spend on the suspension, paint, interior etc
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