Michellin sucks, -ruined the USGP Options

[F1rocco]

Minardi


Do I need to say anymore.....

[jhadler]

I can't say I think anyone directly involved in the whole USGP debacle is totally blameless. But I can see one standpoint of Ferrari. They had a lot to gain by running uncontested on an empty track. And even if the Michelin teams gave up all claim to points and started at the back of the grid, A Ferrari could still get tangled up with a Michelin car (that had nothing to loose), and be out the otherwise giftwrapped points that come from a nearly guranteed 1-2 finish. Was is good sportsmanship? No. But was it good tactics? Yeah. But what would have been the result if Ferrari pulled in and left Jordan in the grid. Would we have seen an even worse sham? Jordan, 1-2 in a race of 2... What would have resulted from a race that didn't happen at all?

Pip! Pip! For DC! He said he wanted to race, and he was serious. However, the driver's don't make the decisions in F1.

Wasn't it just a few years ago that the drivers called a race at California Speedway because of safety concerns? At least they did it with more advance notice, and no one "crossed".

-Josh2

[lapuwali]

It was Texas World Speedway. Super high banking with super high speeds. No one had EVER run an open-wheeled racer there before, and apparently little to no testing of any kind had been done before the first race weekend (this was CART, not IRL). During practice, many of the drivers complained of dizziness from having to sustain 2-3G for nearly the entire lap. CART called off the race, sent everyone home, and lawsuits ensued. Lots of fans had still showed up by that point. One could say more testing prior to the race weekend should have happened, but new tracks debut with little to no testing all the time, so it was hardly unprecedented.

DC wasn't the only one that wanted to race. Most of the drivers wanted to race. Most of the teams wanted to race. All of them recognized we can't turn the clock back to 1980 and have drivers dying constantly because the track or equipment are unsafe.

[davesprinkle]

Actually, it was Texas Motor Speedway. Not trying to pick nits, but TMS is in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Texas World Speedway is further South near College Station. Tx World is also a high-banked superspeedway, but it hasn't had a major race in a long time (if ever?).

The whole CART attempt at a race was a real debacle, just like F1 last weekend. CART officials had been warned by more than 1 race simulation guy that TMS would be unsafe for champcars. In response, they had Christian Fittipaldi run a 1/2 day test in the dead of winter. Speeds were slow, so the CART officials left convinced that there wouldn't be a problem, ignoring that the test wasn't valid for a number of reasons:
1. cold temps led to downforce/drag levels that wouldn't be representative of race conditions
2. a single car test didn't have the aero tow effects of multi-car packs
3. with nothing to gain the team had no motivation to run fast, so they cranked in a lot of downforce, stuck the car to the track, pounded out a few laps, and then packed it all up to get in out of the cold

Turns out, on the race weekend, when the teams were running in real anger, speeds climbed significantly higher than those in the test -- high enough to be dangerous. CART eventually cancelled the race. It was a real black eye for the sport.

[F1rocco]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jun 22 2005, 01:51 PM)

It was Texas World Speedway. Super high banking with super high speeds. No one had EVER run an open-wheeled racer there before, and apparently little to no testing of any kind had been done before the first race weekend (this was CART, not IRL). During practice, many of the drivers complained of dizziness from having to sustain 2-3G for nearly the entire lap. CART called off the race, sent everyone home, and lawsuits ensued. Lots of fans had still showed up by that point. One could say more testing prior to the race weekend should have happened, but new tracks debut with little to no testing all the time, so it was hardly unprecedented. DC wasn't the only one that wanted to race. Most of the drivers wanted to race. Most of the teams wanted to race. All of them recognized we can't turn the clock back to 1980 and have drivers dying constantly because the track or equipment are unsafe.

Michael Andretti

Do I need to say anymore......................

[goose2]

Michelin to offer US GP refunds
From the BBC website:-

Michelin to refund US spectators

Michelin in complaint to F1 boss
Michelin has offered to refund US Grand Prix fans ahead of Wednesday's disciplinary hearing involving the seven teams that refused to race.
The teams, who all use Michelin tyres, sat out Indianapolis after the company said it could not guarantee safety.

Michelin also offered to buy 20,000 tickets for the 2006 US Grand Prix to be given to this year's spectators.

The seven teams face charges of bringing the sport into disrepute and could be docked constructors' points.

A Michelin statement read: "Michelin deeply regrets that the public was deprived of an exciting race and therefore wishes to be the first, among the different groups involved in the race, to make a strong gesture towards the spectators.

"This is an important decision, since Michelin is not at all legally bound to do this."

The Michelin gesture is likely to reduce the risk of the teams - championship leaders Renault, McLaren, Williams, Toyota, Sauber, Red Bull and BAR - from being heavily sanctioned.

The governing body will always win

Max Mosley, FIA president
F1 teams 'ready to boycott races'

The teams are also less likely to take action against any penalties at Sunday's French Grand Prix.

F1 governing body chief Max Mosley says punishment could range from a reprimand to a ban for life - but he thought it would fall between those two extremes.

But Minardi boss Paul Stoddart said it would be wrong to hand out "draconian bans" and hinted at a possible boycott.

"If it emerges that the guilt of certain teams is of a certain level, then a ban will be justified," FIA president Mosley has previously said.

"There are various other possibilities - points being deducted, a fine or reprimand."

However, Stoddart countered by claiming teams would be prepared to boycott future races if the punishment meted out was deemed unjust.

"Would we race after a penalty? I think we'd have a meeting and you wouldn't guarantee it," he said.

Any points penalties would damage the championship ambitions of Renault and McLaren, as well as Williams and Toyota in joint fourth place.

Max just wants to humiliate us. I fear this is not a battle we can fight and win

Sir Frank Williams

Sauber, BAR-Honda and Red Bull are the three others teams up before the FIA world motorsport council.

The FIA considers it would not be fair to penalise the drivers as it believes they were as much victims of the circumstances as the race organisers.

But Williams team chief Sir Frank Williams suggested that any action the teams may try to take might not be strong enough.

"It will be like trying to storm a castle armed only with bows and arrows," he told Autosport magazine.

"Max just wants to humiliate us. I fear this is not a battle we can fight and win."

The Indianapolis Motor Speedway management has yet to decide what action to take.

It could include a lawsuit against F1 rights-holder Bernie Ecclestone's Formula One Management, or cancel the contract for the 2006 race.

And organisers might sue Ecclestone for the $13.5m (£7.5m) it cost to stage the event.

The FIA has also hinted that the way out of the deadlock would be for the seven teams, plus Michelin, to reimburse the 160,000 spectators who attended the race, a gesture that would cost in the region of $16m (£9m).

[lapuwali]

Michelin is really doing the stand-up thing here. A refund for all '05 specators PLUS 20K more free tickets for the '06 race is pretty generous. Tomorrow's hearing will be very interesting. I expect Mosley to be in full tyrant mode.

[larryp]

Yeah, Max will be in full tyrant mode tomorrow but he is somewhat limited in his options. What's he gonna do? Exclude everyone who pulled in at Indy? And do this again? Hee hee! And adding seconds to everyone is pretty much pointless since it is only Ferrari that matters and they will largely be passed in the opening laps while their Bridgestones are still off. So it is either a loss of points or a fine. I am betting fine, but if points, then I hope the SOB does the stand up thing and make it manufacturers'points and not the drivers'.

Honestly, I have followed this story and the background through various countries and I think Michelin is the only one blameless here. They fucked up with the tires but I can't blame them for making a mistake. (Note though they do not test here though.) And they were stand up and told the teams the tires were unsafe. Good for them. So the teams could not run them safely (the FIA wouldn't allow the chicane and running 85 mph slower is itself unsafe), Ferrari was NOT stand up and objected to the chicane (as was their right, obviously) and the FIA stuck to their rules. What a bitch. For what Ferrari has taken from the sport (n.b., not "given", they have taken a hell of a lot more than they have given) they were awfully short cited, esp in their largest market. And the FIA is simply too stupid (or sucking up to Ferrari too much?) to utilize any common sense and consider the business development of F1. I mean, do they think there is more potential for F1 in the middle east or the US? Idiots.

Man, I am glad I went to see Canada and not the US.

[seanery]

well, that's the first thing Michellin has done right since Friday practice. It still doesn't excuse them from their stupidity, though.