Did the 911 Keep the 914 from being all it could be?, Was the 914 De-tuned from its full potential? Options

[Matty900]

I have heard several stories about Porsche not wanting to do anything to mess with the 911 program. Like the one about the 914S.
It's my understanding that in 1973 when they came out with the 2 ltr motor, they launched in the US and a 914 S. It had its own brochure, all of the options and was shut down by Porsche because they did not want to compete with the 911S.
I am not trying to open this can of worms with anyone about is the 914 S real or not. What I want to know is, as protective as Porsche was about the 911 program, How did this affect the 914. Were the 914 De-tuned from what the original design specs were?

[SirAndy]

Well, considering that the 914/6 shipped with the most anemic 911 engine in their lineup, i'd say it's pretty clear they did not want the 914 to compete with the 911.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Jamie]

And so followed the demise of the 916! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)

[mepstein]

The 914 (from what I understand) helped save Porsche from a difficult financial time but when the gentleman's agreement for pricing the chassis ran out, the price was too much to keep sales going. The 914-6 was never a good seller during the early 70's and the 914-6 was too close in performance and price to a 911. Porsche also planned to make the 924 the next intro Porsche, feeling the watercooled engine was the future. At one time, the 928 was slated to take over for the 911 but never caught on enough to justify dropping the 911.

One of the first 914-6 was a really hot car with a hot rod engine and lots of performance mods. Porsche knew how to make them go but the 911 has always been the flagship.

I think the 914 had it's time but wasn't an 80's car.

[sithot]

VW Chair Heinz Nordoff, who was responsible for his side of the deal with Ferry Porsche dies, Kurt Lotz takes over. Beginning of the end.

The irony is the fellow put in charge of the project for Porsche, Ferdinand Piech, would eventually become chairman/CEO of VW.

The 914S was real but only in '73. The use of "S" disappears in '74 brochures.

[Mark Henry]

I guessing but it's reasonable to think the breaking of the gentleman's agreement also ended Porsche's interest in any future improvement/development of the 914.

[sithot]

I guessing but it's reasonable to think the breaking of the gentleman's agreement also ended Porsche's interest in any future improvement/development of the 914.

I'm sure it didn't help. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

the 914-6 was purposely detuned installing 110 main jets instead of 125s like the 911t of the same year.

Mostly since the 914 had the guise of being a VW and the four cylinder marketed as such in Europe, The 914-6 and 916 fell under the same spell and the cars were not in any way accepted by the masses as a Porsche. Porsche did not detune the 916 however, it was faster, lighter, wider, had a longer wheel base than the 911, and was actually the superior sports car. However Porsche would have, because of their agreement with VW, to sell the car for more than their flagship 911s, and that killed the car. NO ONE would have paid more for a 916 than a 911S, so the car would have been a miserable failure.

[bbrock]

Even without the NARP stigma, I think Porsche was in a precarious situation with this car. As George illustrates, the platform was so good that there wasn't a lot of development that could be done before the car was threatening the iconic flagship model. The 914's niche as the affordable Porsche made sense and developing it out of that niche would have been a questionable business decision. I think it was inevitable that the 914 performance would always be below the 911. That said, I think the development of the 2.0/4 was substantial development in that it produced near 6 cylinder performance in a lighter and cheaper power plant. Not a bad achievement at all.

I think the gentlemen's agreement impacted the long-term viability of the model more than it impacted the development for performance. I think another factor was that Porsche had another agreement with Audi that went south and opened the opportunity for Porsche to transition their introductory model to a more modern style and technology without the NARP baggage. It made sense on a lot of levels.

[914Sixer]

Yes the 916 would have been a 911 slayer. At one point a British 916 owner sent his car back to the factory for a 2.8 RS engine and full RS suspension.

[second wind]

I am just glad have one now....woooohoooo!!!!
gg

[davep]

Back about 1969 the 911T was also restricted so that the performance difference between it and the 911E & 911S were significant. One trick was a restrictive gasket in the exhaust. Once replaced, there was an immediate performance boost.
Talking with Harry Bytzek, his 914/6 GT was competitive with the 2L 906 engine until the 2.8 engine came out. This indicates that the handling of the 914/6 was superior to that of the 911. Small wonder then that the mid-engine design was used for many of the race cars.

[arne]

This behavior didn't end with the end of the 914. Note that the mid-engine Boxster/Cayman platform always have lesser engines than similar model 911 models have. It's ironic that Porsche keeps building the mid-engine cars as the entry level (so to speak) cars, while they are obviously the superior layout.

[Tom_T]

I have heard several stories about Porsche not wanting to do anything to mess with the 911 program. Like the one about the 914S.
It's my understanding that in 1973 when they came out with the 2 ltr motor, they launched in the US and a 914 S. It had its own brochure, all of the options and was shut down by Porsche because they did not want to compete with the 911S.
I am not trying to open this can of worms with anyone about is the 914 S real or not. What I want to know is, as protective as Porsche was about the 911 program, How did this affect the 914. Were the 914 De-tuned from what the original design specs were?

Matty - as others have pointed out, it was a more complex demise, than just not competing with the 911s.

As with the 2003> VW-Porsche JV vehicle collaboration Cayennes saving Porsche's financial butz - nearly in bankruptcy from 1996-2004 -

Likewise, our 914s' 118,000+/- in sales over 6 model years 70-76 (69 counting full 70 MY) saved Porsche's financial butz, because they could no longer sell large numbers of 911s, 912s were too expensive to build & sell at an entry level - read high sales volume - price due to their production costs & prices increases from their inception in `64. In fact the ongoing sales of 64-65 356's masked this economic reality with their parallel sales during those 2 MYs.

So why get rid of the butz-saving 914s? There was a combination of reasons:

1. Overpriced Body Shells from VW/Karmann Plant:

The VW reneging on the original "handshake deal" on the price to sell the 914 bodies to Porsche to produce the detuned 110 HP 914-6's put their sales pricing too close to the the nicer fitted out & higher 125 HP 911-T in 70-71 MYs - so most buyers never looked beyond that & shifting foibles, & would pay the extra +/- $500 for a 911-T - so it never really got rolling.

Also note that the 916 was never implemented because it's price was almost that of the comparably equipped 911E/911S of the time, & it would've certainly cut into some 911 sales with a comparable HP motor, while the 911 sales were also declining due to the currency escalation problem discussed below. The 916 project was discontinued after the first 11 prototypes, which were actually very well received in the market & automotive press, but the pricing of $14,000+/- was a question mark - given the oil crisis driven global recession of the mid-1970's - also made worse in the USA by the end of space race & Vietnam War driven production after 72-74>.


2. Continued High Body/Vehicle Pricing for 73-76 914s:

This higher than expected pricing continued for all 914-4s from 74> MYs - after Porsche took over the VW-Porsche JV - so it thereafter also increased the production cost basis of all 914s thereafter - as seen in the ever increasing prices - making the 914-2.0s also too close for comfort relative to better fitted-out & more powerful 911-Ts (& other base 911 models) - despite the by then recognized better handling 914s.

(Note that - IIRC - Porsche didn't begin factory racing with the 911s, until the 914-6 was waning.)


3. Currency Escalation Driving up Import Prices:

Added to the above, the W. German Deutche Mark (DM) was rapidly escalating against the US Dollar after then President Nixon took the dollar off the Gold standard, & it was allowed to float in the world monetary markets, in order to help keep USA products more competitive - but that likewise made other imports including cars more expensive after the dollar was no longer set by the US (Fed & Treasury Depts.).

This can clearly be seen in the rapid price escalation of the 73 Porsches of all types 914 & 911, & carrying on into 76 MY & beyond - further complicating Porsche's competitiveness in the USA, where 60% of their cars were then sold - which also affected their cars from 77> MYs, leading to their later financial viability crisis which the Cayenne solved.

I recently described in a reply to another similar post (maybe one of yours) as to how this price escalation to DM vs. dollar currency escalation was the actual demise of the "914S" nomenclature in the USA only (Note that both Japan kept "914S" & the UK kept 914 SC" thru to 76 MY), which I recently also added to my "914S".

It was NOT the much alleged concerns of PCA 911 owners, nor of Porsche concerns over competing with their top of the line 911S - think about those - who would EVER think a 80-95 HP 4-banger 914S was competition for a 911S with upwards of 180-210 HP - really, REALLY!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) - but ignore logic & facts to continue believing in those urban myths if you must.

Quite simply - Porsche could no longer keep selling a fully loaded 73 "914S" at it's original Aug 72 - March 73 price of $5299 (WCPOE), so they increased it to $7299 Mrch - June 73, & introduced a more basic "914 Sport" with only Performance Group options as their new "price leader 2.0" at $5299" for March - June 73.

Thereafter for 74> MYs Porsche further reduced their pricing risk by decoupling ALL options & option groups from ALL 914s, & made everything for extra cost - & they increased the cost of the options/groups - while the 2.0's base price stayed the same as what the prior 73 MY fully loaded "914S" had been increased to of $7299 - but now without ANY options!

Both the 75 & 76 MYs saw increases to base prices & options - & were all now higher than what the pre-73 DM escalation 911 prices had been!

There were 2 exceptions to offering options for a somewhat of a deal price - but both were low production number - thereby limited their losses - the 74 MY 914 1000 LE/CanAms (EDIT: 1000 500 each color scheme) which actually only "included" a few options, & the close-out 76 MY 914-2.0s - which was done to get rid of them ASAP before what was to come next - & even then they were adding to the base price for the supposedly included options.

EDIT: ... & I wasn't counting the similar Euro/RoW 100,000th 914 Special editions, but that's another number of them above & beyond the LEs here. I'm not going to look it up, but someone else can chime in with the number if they so choose.


In reality at he end of the 914's run - you had no choice in 76 MY 2.0 options it was however they were built & shipped, & you paid the price - most of the ones that I looked at before buying my used 3 year old 73 "914S" were all priced at $8500+/- & over, with the anemic CA-Smog choked 78-80 HP!!

If you were of car buying or dreaming age then - you know what I mean about how ALL of the cool imported sports cars went way out of reach for most of us!

If you look at the production/sales numbers for the 914s at the info section here, you can see how this currency driven price escalation bled off 914 sales to just a few - after peaking in 73 MY - as it also did with 911 & 912E & 930 sales. Monthly sales rates on all Porsche models would show that drop off starting in March 73, as it did with ALL import car makers' vehicles.


4. Another Failed VW/Audi-Porsche JV Enters the Fray:

As they say on the TV commercials - "Butt Wait!" -

VW, Audi & Porsche were all concerned over being able to meet with aircooled engines, the soon to be & ever increasing smog control limits of California (60-70% of the USA Sales, which still ran 60-75% of worldwide Porsche sales = 36 - 52.5% of worldwide sales to California) - plus the other 49 states under EPA were soon to adopt the California emissions standards too nationwide.

Ergo, Porsche began designing their watercooled V8 for the 928, & VW/Audi started designing 4 & 5 cyl. inline watercooled engines for their Golf, Fox, 3000, etc. models - & they commissioned Porsche to design a VW/Audi sports coupe using their new I-4 watercooled motor.

VW/Audi went so far as to schedule complete retooling of the Karmann plant to build theri new sports car/coupe - but then backed out & cancelled the product. You will recall that ALL 76 MY 914-2.0s were built prior to Dec. 75, so that the Karmann plant could be retooled for that new car, & Porsche back-filled by installing the 2.0 Air-boxer in 911 shells - creating the short lived 912E produced at their Stuttgart plant's 911 line for +/- Jan - July 76 for 76 MY only.

Porsche had also taken over the cancelled VW/Audi sports car/coupe, & began producing it as their own 924 in 77 MY on.

So the 914 had no production line after Dec. 75, & there was no possible way to continue it's production, because all of the tooling had been worn out & never replaced - even if they wanted to move it to another plant from Karmann.


There are other factors which came into play for the 914's demise, but some urban myth about Porsche not liking the 914 to save the 911 wasn't one of them.

In fact, Porsche itself thought that the 911 line would be replaced by an all watercooled line of 924, 928 & other spin-off models by the early 1990's, & the last aircooled 911s were produced in 1993 MY due to the problems with aircooled engines not meeting the by then 50 State smog regulations.

However, Porsche did react to customer lash-back at their original watercooled planned replacements, & then went on in the mid to late 1980s to start design of the waterboxer six later used in the 996 & 986 lines of 911s & Boxsters/Caymans - with the 996 & 986 lines initially sharing full body/mechanical front end designs from the windscreen forward in order to save on costs - which were introduced as their diminishing sales 928s were phased out in 95-96 MYs.

As with most business issues - & car manufacturing is & always was a business - it was never some "911 jealousy" - but a complex set of world economic & automotive regulatory issues.

Happy Holidays! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif)
Tom
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[mepstein]

Porsche was racing 911’s on a very high level in the late 60’s. Long before the introduction of the 914-6.

[porbmw]

Tom T. has pretty well nailed it
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Tom_T]

Porsche was racing 911’s on a very high level in the late 60’s. Long before the introduction of the 914-6.

I stand corrected on that one point Mark, & it was only a side point anyway, which doesn't affect the story of why the 914 was dropped.

The rest is accurate.

But by golly - you caught me on something! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[73-914]

I remember at one point in late 79 or early 80 , the exchange rate fell to 1.47 DM to 1$

[Tom_T]

I remember at one point in late 79 or early 80 , the exchange rate fell to 1.47 DM to 1$

I think that was just before the 2nd oil crisis, but in gold standard days IIRC in was only 0.7's DM to $1 - so even that drop was double the pre-73 rate - but I've not rechecked that - it's just IIRC (Mark ;-).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
TT
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[sithot]

I remember at one point in late 79 or early 80 , the exchange rate fell to 1.47 DM to 1$

“Gray market” cars started rolling in about this time.