Aftermarket FI, Requesting opinions! Options

[Ian Stott]

Anybody running an after market fuel injection system called SDS? Interested in opinions. Thx in advance!

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

[wndsrfr]

Anybody running an after market fuel injection system called SDS? Interested in opinions. Thx in advance!

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

Hey Ian....I've got SDS on my /4 for fuel and spark...can tell you more later this evening....
John

[Chris914n6]

Aged design. Do a search, we had a long discussion not long ago.

[Mark Henry]

SDS works good on a stock 2.0 If it's fuel only I can install and tune it in one day.

Your Ljet fuel injectors aren't the best (except for Ljet), 2.0 injectors and a resistor pack (free with SDS) would be the easiest to install.
Needs a O2 WB sensor but it doesn't need a gauge, exhaust and intake bungs welded on, a small plate made to the throttle plate for the TPS and then wire it up.
I can and have done fuel only systems in one day, including tuning, but some of the wiring housekeeping might not be perfect.

I ran it on my old 1.8 DD engine for 2-3 years, except for tuning I never even had the controller on it. Way smaller tuning learning curve, dyno time not needed, perfect for old farts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Good enough on my high buck 2.6, 180hp, nickies, T4 engine.

For your 914 I'd switch to a djet plenum, and air cleaner box, if you get me to do it I have all that ready to go, plus we could tackle the inner long stiffeners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Ian Stott]

[quote name='Mark Henry' date='Mar 4 2019, 05:58 PM' post='2694077']
SDS works good on a stock 2.0 If it's fuel only I can install and tune it in one day.

Your Ljet fuel injectors aren't the best (except for Ljet), 2.0 injectors and a resistor pack (free with SDS) would be the easiest to install.
Needs a O2 WB sensor but it doesn't need a gauge, exhaust and intake bungs welded on, a small plate made to the throttle plate for the TPS and then wire it up.
I can and have done fuel only systems in one day, including tuning, but some of the wiring housekeeping might not be perfect.

I ran it on my old 1.8 DD engine for 2-3 years, except for tuning I never even had the controller on it. Way smaller tuning learning curve, dyno time not needed, perfect for old farts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Good enough on my high buck 2.6, 180hp, nickies, T4 engine.

For your 914 I'd switch to a djet plenum, and air cleaner box, if you get me to do it I have all that ready to go, plus we could tackle the inner long stiffeners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Since my engine was originally 2.0, D-jet don’t I have the plenum and 2.0 injectors?

[Ian Stott]

[quote name='Ian Stott' date='Mar 4 2019, 07:19 PM' post='2694104']
[quote name='Mark Henry' date='Mar 4 2019, 05:58 PM' post='2694077']
SDS works good on a stock 2.0 If it's fuel only I can install and tune it in one day.

Your Ljet fuel injectors aren't the best (except for Ljet), 2.0 injectors and a resistor pack (free with SDS) would be the easiest to install.
Needs a O2 WB sensor but it doesn't need a gauge, exhaust and intake bungs welded on, a small plate made to the throttle plate for the TPS and then wire it up.
I can and have done fuel only systems in one day, including tuning, but some of the wiring housekeeping might not be perfect.

I ran it on my old 1.8 DD engine for 2-3 years, except for tuning I never even had the controller on it. Way smaller tuning learning curve, dyno time not needed, perfect for old farts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Good enough on my high buck 2.6, 180hp, nickies, T4 engine.

For your 914 I'd switch to a djet plenum, and air cleaner box, if you get me to do it I have all that ready to go, plus we could tackle the inner long stiffeners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Since my engine was originally 2.0, D-jet don’t I have the plenum and 2.0 injectors?
We should talk or text, I should be in your phone!
We should talk or text, I should be in your phone!

[Chi-town]

SDS is an antique by today's ecu standards.

You can get a Link Atom and get twice the ability and adjustability.

[ottox914]

Check the links in my sig. Old school but good school. Rock solid reliable. Easy to install and tune. Has worked fine for me on stock 1.7, stock 2.0, modified 2.0, turbo, and 2056. More options can be more options to take a wrong turn with set up or tuning, and require more time to get back on track. Nothing wrong with more options, but do you want to spend your time forever chasing the details of the tune or or drive it.

I have been very happy with the SDS. It has worked well for me.

[Rand]

Kinda stinks when you come looking for answers and everyone sends you to history.

There is SDS, and Mega/Micro Squirt. I wouldn't waste time wandering beyond that, even if ricers try to send you another direction. We are antiquities for crying out loud.

[Rand]

Hey Chi Town, show your curves and what you recommend for our type IV motors? And while your're at it, explain your performance upgrades.

SDS is an antique by today's ecu standards.

You can get a Link Atom and get twice the ability and adjustabilitWe could all be customers!

[Chi-town]

Which curves are you referring to? Just Ignition? Ignition and fuel?

Every engine is different, there is no "one curve to rule them all"
If you have the ability to tune your car on a dyno or even a street tune do it.
Your setup or fuel maybe better or worse for what ever default curve you are given.

Bring able to log and review data will show you what's actually going on in stead of taking a manufacturer or reseller's word that it's right.

When you start messing with fueling and Ignition don't guess, measure!

Basic tools needed:
Wideband O2 (I like the innovative units, inexpensive, reliable)
Knock monitor (something as simple as Haltec's knock ears)

As for my opinion on ECUs I have used and installed personally for the money Link offers a lot of features and way more technical support than megasquirt. If you have an unlimited budget Motec is always top shelf.

Sorry I don't sell any ECU's nor do I tune them (way too impatient (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif))

On the other hand once you have one I would be happy to help you with a data acquisition setup as that is my specialty.

[Rand]

We can debate, but to be more expedient, which distributor and setting do you suggest for our type 4 engines? Which distributor do you recommend for which of our type 4 engines?

[Rand]

On the other hand once you have one I would be happy to help you with a data acquisition setup as that is my specialty.

What data have you gathered on type 4 engines?

[Chi-town]

Distributor would depend on your setup and use of the engine.

All the data I have currently is on a turbo type 4 used in a drag ghia so it wouldn't do anyone any good here.

My point is that if you're adjusting critical engine parameters then you should have data to record what is actually happening so you can make educated decisions on what to adjust and how to adjust it.

"Butt Dyno" or "It feels better" can be very costly guesses.

Why risk your engine?

[Rand]

Why risk your engine is precisely the question.

I am happy you are here to help us expand on new ideas. But please do NOT forsake all of the years of experience you haven't read yet.

[Chi-town]

I don't know where you got confused but I haven't forsaken anyone's experience. You need to take a step back and re-read what I posted.

Did I make a comment about anyone's tuning ability? No
Did I make a comment about anyone using a SDS unit? No

I simply stated SDS is old ecu tech, that's just a plain fact.

Do your homework and you'll come to realize I'm correct in that statement.

Here are some ECU manufacturers to start you on your research:
Motec
Link
Haltec
Pectal
Emtron
AEM

Some basic features of newer ecu tech that can benefit 914 owners / tuners:
Sequential ignition and fuel control
Knock detection
Built in Lamda control
Flex fuel capabilities
Multiple trigger input styles (crank wheel, distributor, etc)
OEM sensor calibrations

Just because the engine is older design doesn't mean it can't benefit from newer engine management technology.

I'm not just making blind statements as I am a paid data acquisition consultant and I have over two decades of experience with street and race vehicles.

I get involved in posts like this because I like helping enthusiast get the best equipment for the money they spend. For the price of an SDS unit ($1284 on their site) you can have more than just following the old way of doing it.

[Ian Stott]

Thanks to all that have responded, especially the ones commenting on their experience with SDS. I just want something reliable, that once set up I can forget about it, go for a drive on a nice sunny day and enjoy my teener! Not looking to have a fire breathing Camaro eating monster, nor do I have the expertise to monkey around with all the stuff referred to in some of the posts.

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

[sithot]

I don't know where you got confused but I haven't forsaken anyone's experience. You need to take a step back and re-read what I posted.

Did I make a comment about anyone's tuning ability? No
Did I make a comment about anyone using a SDS unit? No

I simply stated SDS is old ecu tech, that's just a plain fact.

Do your homework and you'll come to realize I'm correct in that statement.

Here are some ECU manufacturers to start you on your research:
Motec
Link
Haltec
Pectal
Emtron
AEM

Some basic features of newer ecu tech that can benefit 914 owners / tuners:
Sequential ignition and fuel control
Knock detection
Built in Lamda control
Flex fuel capabilities
Multiple trigger input styles (crank wheel, distributor, etc)
OEM sensor calibrations

Just because the engine is older design doesn't mean it can't benefit from newer engine management technology.

I'm not just making blind statements as I am a paid data acquisition consultant and I have over two decades of experience with street and race vehicles.

I get involved in posts like this because I like helping enthusiast get the best equipment for the money they spend. For the price of an SDS unit ($1284 on their site) you can have more than just following the old way of doing it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Mark Henry]

No you're ranting about a system you have no fuchsing clue about or have ever used.

Sequential ignition and fuel control, Great for fuel economy at 1000-3000rpm but seeing as you shouldn't lug a T4 below 3000rpm all but useless on a T4.
Knock detection useless on a noisy aircooled engine, but SDS has this option
Built in Lamda control, SDS has this, but you don't control a lambda, you or your ECU reads it
Flex fuel capabilities honestly don't know, I only use pure gas 91, I did run E10 on my 1.8 no problem
Multiple trigger input styles (crank wheel, distributor, etc) SDS will run stock dizzy, MSD or crankfire. I believe now you could use a trigger wheel, COP, etc.
OEM sensor calibrations, SDS works with some OEM, but again doesn't matter on a T4 and for aircooled SDS uses the stock bosch head temp sensor.

SDS has full data logging, real time and/or logged, plug it into a laptop if you like

I'm not just making blind statements as I am a paid data acquisition consultant and I have over two decades of experience with street and race vehicles.

"
Good for you!
How many VW/Porsche engines are you building right now? I'm building ten engines, three 996, four T4, two T1 and one 356. Seven are performance builds, I had to add my 6th engine stand.

Here are some ECU manufacturers to start you on your research:
Motec
Link
Haltec
Pectal
Emtron
AEM

All require expensive dyno and tuning time, plus a steep learning curve. Most of those systems listed are way more money than SDS
And in this case a basically stock engine, 2056 with a WEB #73 FI cam. Plus I know Ian (the OP) and I know he doesn't want to learn how to program a complex system.

Begs the question why do you need "Engine management" for a simple pushrod 8 valve NA engine based on an 80 year old design?

Ian, I have everything you would need, except the Djet injectors I have are old and would recommend sending them out for service. You would also need a new air filter and the runner hoses. I have the TPS mount, TB, plenum, air cleaner, all set up for SDS. Newer style injectors would require custom made fuel rails.
I also have a new reasonably priced O2 meter with a genuine bosch lambda, I have 5 in stock.

[wndsrfr]

Thanks to all that have responded, especially the ones commenting on their experience with SDS. I just want something reliable, that once set up I can forget about it, go for a drive on a nice sunny day and enjoy my teener! Not looking to have a fire breathing Camaro eating monster, nor do I have the expertise to monkey around with all the stuff referred to in some of the posts.

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

Ian, go with Mark to set up your SDS & I think you'll be really happy and not have to deal with the near vertical learning curve with a different system.
Here's a link to my 2316 build--injectors for this engine/cam are "red top" 30 pound type--not sure if you'll need to go that big, but Mark will know.
I can also share my fueling & spark curves on Excel spreadsheet if you want.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...921&hl=dyno