Anybody running an after market fuel injection system called SDS? Interested in opinions. Thx in advance!

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

Hey Ian....I've got SDS on my /4 for fuel and spark...can tell you more later this evening....
John

Aged design. Do a search, we had a long discussion not long ago.

SDS works good on a stock 2.0 If it's fuel only I can install and tune it in one day.

Your Ljet fuel injectors aren't the best (except for Ljet), 2.0 injectors and a resistor pack (free with SDS) would be the easiest to install.
Needs a O2 WB sensor but it doesn't need a gauge, exhaust and intake bungs welded on, a small plate made to the throttle plate for the TPS and then wire it up.
I can and have done fuel only systems in one day, including tuning, but some of the wiring housekeeping might not be perfect.

I ran it on my old 1.8 DD engine for 2-3 years, except for tuning I never even had the controller on it. Way smaller tuning learning curve, dyno time not needed, perfect for old farts.
Good enough on my high buck 2.6, 180hp, nickies, T4 engine.

For your 914 I'd switch to a djet plenum, and air cleaner box, if you get me to do it I have all that ready to go, plus we could tackle the inner long stiffeners.

[quote name='Mark Henry' date='Mar 4 2019, 05:58 PM' post='2694077']
SDS works good on a stock 2.0 If it's fuel only I can install and tune it in one day.

Your Ljet fuel injectors aren't the best (except for Ljet), 2.0 injectors and a resistor pack (free with SDS) would be the easiest to install.
Needs a O2 WB sensor but it doesn't need a gauge, exhaust and intake bungs welded on, a small plate made to the throttle plate for the TPS and then wire it up.
I can and have done fuel only systems in one day, including tuning, but some of the wiring housekeeping might not be perfect.

I ran it on my old 1.8 DD engine for 2-3 years, except for tuning I never even had the controller on it. Way smaller tuning learning curve, dyno time not needed, perfect for old farts.
Good enough on my high buck 2.6, 180hp, nickies, T4 engine.

For your 914 I'd switch to a djet plenum, and air cleaner box, if you get me to do it I have all that ready to go, plus we could tackle the inner long stiffeners.

Since my engine was originally 2.0, D-jet don’t I have the plenum and 2.0 injectors?

[quote name='Ian Stott' date='Mar 4 2019, 07:19 PM' post='2694104']
[quote name='Mark Henry' date='Mar 4 2019, 05:58 PM' post='2694077']
SDS works good on a stock 2.0 If it's fuel only I can install and tune it in one day.

Your Ljet fuel injectors aren't the best (except for Ljet), 2.0 injectors and a resistor pack (free with SDS) would be the easiest to install.
Needs a O2 WB sensor but it doesn't need a gauge, exhaust and intake bungs welded on, a small plate made to the throttle plate for the TPS and then wire it up.
I can and have done fuel only systems in one day, including tuning, but some of the wiring housekeeping might not be perfect.

I ran it on my old 1.8 DD engine for 2-3 years, except for tuning I never even had the controller on it. Way smaller tuning learning curve, dyno time not needed, perfect for old farts.
Good enough on my high buck 2.6, 180hp, nickies, T4 engine.

For your 914 I'd switch to a djet plenum, and air cleaner box, if you get me to do it I have all that ready to go, plus we could tackle the inner long stiffeners.

Since my engine was originally 2.0, D-jet don’t I have the plenum and 2.0 injectors?
We should talk or text, I should be in your phone!
We should talk or text, I should be in your phone!

SDS is an antique by today's ecu standards.

You can get a Link Atom and get twice the ability and adjustability.

Check the links in my sig. Old school but good school. Rock solid reliable. Easy to install and tune. Has worked fine for me on stock 1.7, stock 2.0, modified 2.0, turbo, and 2056. More options can be more options to take a wrong turn with set up or tuning, and require more time to get back on track. Nothing wrong with more options, but do you want to spend your time forever chasing the details of the tune or or drive it.

I have been very happy with the SDS. It has worked well for me.

Kinda stinks when you come looking for answers and everyone sends you to history.

There is SDS, and Mega/Micro Squirt. I wouldn't waste time wandering beyond that, even if ricers try to send you another direction. We are antiquities for crying out loud.

Hey Chi Town, show your curves and what you recommend for our type IV motors? And while your're at it, explain your performance upgrades.

Which curves are you referring to? Just Ignition? Ignition and fuel?

Every engine is different, there is no "one curve to rule them all"
If you have the ability to tune your car on a dyno or even a street tune do it.
Your setup or fuel maybe better or worse for what ever default curve you are given.

Bring able to log and review data will show you what's actually going on in stead of taking a manufacturer or reseller's word that it's right.

When you start messing with fueling and Ignition don't guess, measure!

Basic tools needed:
Wideband O2 (I like the innovative units, inexpensive, reliable)
Knock monitor (something as simple as Haltec's knock ears)

As for my opinion on ECUs I have used and installed personally for the money Link offers a lot of features and way more technical support than megasquirt. If you have an unlimited budget Motec is always top shelf.

Sorry I don't sell any ECU's nor do I tune them (way too impatient )

On the other hand once you have one I would be happy to help you with a data acquisition setup as that is my specialty.

We can debate, but to be more expedient, which distributor and setting do you suggest for our type 4 engines? Which distributor do you recommend for which of our type 4 engines?

What data have you gathered on type 4 engines?

Distributor would depend on your setup and use of the engine.

All the data I have currently is on a turbo type 4 used in a drag ghia so it wouldn't do anyone any good here.

My point is that if you're adjusting critical engine parameters then you should have data to record what is actually happening so you can make educated decisions on what to adjust and how to adjust it.

"Butt Dyno" or "It feels better" can be very costly guesses.

Why risk your engine?

Why risk your engine is precisely the question.

I am happy you are here to help us expand on new ideas. But please do NOT forsake all of the years of experience you haven't read yet.

I don't know where you got confused but I haven't forsaken anyone's experience. You need to take a step back and re-read what I posted.

Did I make a comment about anyone's tuning ability? No
Did I make a comment about anyone using a SDS unit? No

I simply stated SDS is old ecu tech, that's just a plain fact.

Do your homework and you'll come to realize I'm correct in that statement.

Here are some ECU manufacturers to start you on your research:
Motec
Link
Haltec
Pectal
Emtron
AEM

Some basic features of newer ecu tech that can benefit 914 owners / tuners:
Sequential ignition and fuel control
Knock detection
Built in Lamda control
Flex fuel capabilities
Multiple trigger input styles (crank wheel, distributor, etc)
OEM sensor calibrations

Just because the engine is older design doesn't mean it can't benefit from newer engine management technology.

I'm not just making blind statements as I am a paid data acquisition consultant and I have over two decades of experience with street and race vehicles.

I get involved in posts like this because I like helping enthusiast get the best equipment for the money they spend. For the price of an SDS unit ($1284 on their site) you can have more than just following the old way of doing it.

Thanks to all that have responded, especially the ones commenting on their experience with SDS. I just want something reliable, that once set up I can forget about it, go for a drive on a nice sunny day and enjoy my teener! Not looking to have a fire breathing Camaro eating monster, nor do I have the expertise to monkey around with all the stuff referred to in some of the posts.

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

No you're ranting about a system you have no fuchsing clue about or have ever used.

Sequential ignition and fuel control, Great for fuel economy at 1000-3000rpm but seeing as you shouldn't lug a T4 below 3000rpm all but useless on a T4.
Knock detection useless on a noisy aircooled engine, but SDS has this option
Built in Lamda control, SDS has this, but you don't control a lambda, you or your ECU reads it
Flex fuel capabilities honestly don't know, I only use pure gas 91, I did run E10 on my 1.8 no problem
Multiple trigger input styles (crank wheel, distributor, etc) SDS will run stock dizzy, MSD or crankfire. I believe now you could use a trigger wheel, COP, etc.
OEM sensor calibrations, SDS works with some OEM, but again doesn't matter on a T4 and for aircooled SDS uses the stock bosch head temp sensor.

SDS has full data logging, real time and/or logged, plug it into a laptop if you like
"
Good for you!
How many VW/Porsche engines are you building right now? I'm building ten engines, three 996, four T4, two T1 and one 356. Seven are performance builds, I had to add my 6th engine stand.


All require expensive dyno and tuning time, plus a steep learning curve. Most of those systems listed are way more money than SDS
And in this case a basically stock engine, 2056 with a WEB #73 FI cam. Plus I know Ian (the OP) and I know he doesn't want to learn how to program a complex system.

Begs the question why do you need "Engine management" for a simple pushrod 8 valve NA engine based on an 80 year old design?

Ian, I have everything you would need, except the Djet injectors I have are old and would recommend sending them out for service. You would also need a new air filter and the runner hoses. I have the TPS mount, TB, plenum, air cleaner, all set up for SDS. Newer style injectors would require custom made fuel rails.
I also have a new reasonably priced O2 meter with a genuine bosch lambda, I have 5 in stock.

Ian, go with Mark to set up your SDS & I think you'll be really happy and not have to deal with the near vertical learning curve with a different system.
Here's a link to my 2316 build--injectors for this engine/cam are "red top" 30 pound type--not sure if you'll need to go that big, but Mark will know.
I can also share my fueling & spark curves on Excel spreadsheet if you want.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...921&hl=dyno

Mario at http://thedubshop.com/ makes his own Megasquirt based ecu tailored for making aircooled engines go EFI. Worth a look.

Ian's big problem with me is logistics....he lives 18+ hours away, one way.

No you're ranting about a system you have no fuchsing clue about or have ever used.

One I'm not one of the people ranting in this post, 'Im simply stating facts. I have actually used a SDS system and similar systems and they work ok if you're looking for basic functions.

Sequential ignition and fuel control
Great for fuel economy at 1000-3000rpm but seeing as you shouldn't lug a T4 below 3000rpm all but useless on a T4.

You must not understand the benefits of this? Cylinder balance is just one of the advantages.

Knock detection
useless on a noisy aircooled engine, but SDS has this option

Works quite well actually and can save your engine if you know how to use it. We use it on the current turbo Type 4 that I'm consulting on and it has saved their motor

Built in Lamda control
SDS has this, but you don't control a lambda, you or your ECU reads it

There's more to Lambda than just reading a signal, the heater element control is one of the items in that group.

Flex fuel capabilities
honestly don't know, I only use pure gas 91, I did run E10 on my 1.8 no problem

Here in the US we only get 10% ethanol fuel in most places. E85 does have performance gains if you know how to use it even in an N/A engine.

Multiple trigger input styles (crank wheel, distributor, etc)
SDS will run stock dizzy, MSD or crankfire. I believe now you could use a trigger wheel, COP, etc.

It's got one 2 out of 6 items on the list

OEM sensor calibrations
SDS works with some OEM, but again doesn't matter on a T4 and for aircooled SDS uses the stock bosch head temp sensor.
Why not all?

SDS has full data logging, real time and/or logged, plug it into a laptop if you like

If it didn't I would have said just throw it in the trash.

[quote]I'm not just making blind statements as I am a paid data acquisition consultant and I have over two decades of experience with street and race vehicles.[/quote]"

Good for you!
How many VW/Porsche engines are you building right now? I'm building ten engines, three 996, four T4, two T1 and one 356. Seven are performance builds, I had to add my 6th engine stand.

If you really want to compare personal achievements, I've built a ton of horizontally opposed engines (somewhere around 200) including VW, Porsche, and Subaru and made crazy power (1593whp 2JZ is my personal best). I said I don't tune cars for people, never said I didn't build them

Here are some ECU manufacturers to start you on your research:
Motec
Link
Haltec
Pectal
Emtron
AEM[/quote]

All require expensive dyno and tuning time, plus a steep learning curve. Most of those systems listed are way more money than SDS
And in this case a basically stock engine, 2056 with a WEB #73 FI cam. Plus I know Ian (the OP) and I know he doesn't want to learn how to program a complex system.
Begs the question why do you need "Engine management" for a simple pushrod 8 valve NA engine based on an 80 year old design? [/b]

Actually the Link is cheaper than an SDS by a good margin ($800 vs $1200).

Any Standalone ECU should always be tuned for the car it's installed on. You're spending a lot of money on a unit, don't you want to get the most out of it and make sure the tune is actually safe for your setup? If not, go buy some bolt on 40mm Webers and be done with it because it equates to about the same thing

Newer ECUs are easy to seup. For example the Link software uses drop down menus for thing like triggers and sensor calibrations, it doesn't get much easier than that.

They also have a huge support community which just like your SDS you can get a base map that will allow you to plug it in and start it up.

I love how the car being old is an excuse not to use newer tech to make it better

@Ian Scott - If you want a SDS have at it, from your original post I thought you were looking for a list of options, sorry to gum up your thread.

OKay




I'm not going to play, but that's exactly what the OP wants.
He wants "everytime you turn the key it runs", nothing more.

He doesn't want or need bells and whistles. Bone stock 2.0 engine with (would be) stock Djet intake, SSI's, only upgrades are KB P&C 96mm, Web #73 FI cam (almost stock), SSI's and a CFR muffler.
I doubt Ian will ever play with the values or want to.

SDS is the Windows XP laptop of Aftermarket FI. Sure it will work but you can get more features on modern hardware for half the $$ with anything else on the market.
That being said, the most important part is the tuner. So if Mark can provide a solution within your budget then that would be the best option.

Maybe you guys could help Ian trouble shoot his Ljet and then he doesn't need an aftermarket FI system.

I installed it, ran flawlessly, my 914's known good '74 Ljet system on a 2.0 914 engine. About a year or so later, just in the morning, it won't start. It cranks and cranks real good but won't catch.

When I did it all new hoses including runners, cap and injector seals, head temp sensor, matching dizzy added pertronix. Like I said, worked flawlessly, I test drove it for two weeks, only odd thing was starting you had to give it two pumps with the pedal like carbs. The system, when it was on my 1.8, you never needed to touch the gas to start.
Perfect O2 WB meter, fuel pressure and head temp readings.

He used to have a big hill, he'd bumpstart it and it ran and started perfectly all day long. He can bump start it in the AM and it will still start 10-12 hours later.
His new place doesn't have a hill.

Unfortunately I'm some 1300 miles away.

Why are webbers so great on a /6
You dont see many for sale adds saying , (selling tripple webbers to put on f.i )

But not a 4

Everyone wants f.i

It's the issue of originality, 914/6 had triple webers not till later were much better systems introduced for /6s. Most implants will use a tried and tested system like Motronic.

Originality for the /4 is the D-Jet, one of the first mass produced FI systems used by VW, Volvo, and Jaguar.

Originality for the /4 is the D-Jet, one of the first mass produced FI systems used by VW, Volvo, and Jaguar.
[/quote]








May wanna add fire extinguisher ot suppression system
To your budget if you go djet route


Hell maybe even a fire suit

Actually, a good running fi system doesn’t have gas vapors like carbs. There’s no reason to be afraid of FI when it has been maintained.
And Rand is right. 914-4 had FI. 914-6 and early 911’s had carbs. Many people switch to something new but even more people want to run with what originally came on the engine.

I don't have a problem with carbs on a mechanically sound engine. Proper rebuilt/serviced IDA /6 weber's work good on a mechanically sound engine. Carbs can run good with linkage properly sorted and carb cam on T4 with a carbs on a mechanically sound engine.

Notice I keep repeating some key words...

The only wrench in Ian's area want's to put carbs on, Ian doesn't want carbs and I wouldn't recommend them for him.
Carbs are off the table.

And I've seen more flaming carbs than leaking FI hoses...

Sound's like the problem I had with the bad ignition switch. Wasn't touching the start and run contacts at the same time.