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> Reviving NOS Webers, Initial Settings?
johnhora
post Mar 22 2019, 12:40 PM
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Brent,

Those are in good shape for the age and amount of time just sitting.
They will rebuild just fine.
Take your time with removing parts....never never force anything that screws in or out.
If you can.. soak the carb before disassembly this will help....if no tank then spray with WD 40 or similar and soak soak soak...
All that yellow stuff that feels like sand grit is dried up fuel/additives


Here's a set of vintage 40 IDF model 18/19 that I just rebuilt
can't seem to find the before pic...but they were in very crappy condition
These have new shafts and sealed bearing in them so takes a little longer to rebuild.
The model 18/19 were made specifically for upgrades to the VW 1600-2000 engines T-1 to T4. They have the factory velocity stack / air horns (like Fiat 124 Abarth Spider)
and as you can also see they have the cold start circuit blocked off and not opened up on the inside.
Yours have the cold start...so be careful when taking apart as there are little springs under the two cone shaped things sticking up on the side with the cold start. Also a split brass washer holding it down...it will shoot across the garage and the parts are impossible to find.

Take your time and good luck on the rebuild.

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bbrock
post Mar 22 2019, 12:42 PM
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QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Mar 22 2019, 12:34 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Wow. I'm looking for the eating crow emoji.

Not what I had envisioned as NOS. Were they stored outdoors?


Might as well have been. Ever spent a summer in eastern Kansas? Born and raised there but I don't recommend it. They were stored in my basement. Humidity would get so high the concrete walls and even insulated pipes would sweat. I guess these things are pretty prone to galvanic corrosion. Luckily, it looks to be just cosmetic once the residue is cleaned out. Glad to be out of that soup.
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Superhawk996
post Mar 22 2019, 12:50 PM
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I'm in Detroit and we get lots of humidity but nothing that would do that!

Entertained a job in St. Louis once. By the end of the interview in mid July I had already made up my mind; No Go.

Lived out near Cour d'Alene in very early 80's. Agree - can't wait to get back there and out of the humidity.
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bbrock
post Mar 22 2019, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE(johnhora @ Mar 22 2019, 12:40 PM) *

Brent,

Those are in good shape for the age and amount of time just sitting.
They will rebuild just fine.


Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I wasn't too worried about them but it still isn't what you want to see with a never been used carb. These have never had fuel in them though so the yellow is just another form of evil from the galvanic reaction I think. I'll be blocking off the cold start circuit as well.

I should add that have rebuilt a couple Holleys back in the day. These look easier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Where's a good place to buy rebuild kits? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

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johnhora
post Mar 22 2019, 01:08 PM
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Pierce Manifold is very good as are others..
https://www.piercemanifolds.com/Default.asp

On the cold start...you can buy the exterior block off plate but you will need to reuse the interior parts...the spring holds down a little piston that is the real block off...when the lever is moved it raises the piston in the port lets fuel dump down the bottom of the carb.
look at the diagrams and it will make sense.

Yes old Holley's....have rebuilt many a 4 barrel and deuces (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
you are correct...same thing so you won't have any problems
they are easier and are totally made for rebuilds....unlike some of the Holley stuff
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MarkV
post Mar 22 2019, 02:07 PM
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My DRLA 40's have some of that white staining that is permanently etched in the on the the float bowels. I got some of it off but it doesn't seem to affect anything. I am sure you will get them looking good again.

My carbs also came with 28mm vents and I changed them for 34's. That change made a huge difference in the way the car runs. Not sure why they came with 28's.... they might be more suitable for a smaller engine.





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bbrock
post Mar 22 2019, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE(MarkV @ Mar 22 2019, 02:07 PM) *

Not sure why they came with 28's.... they might be more suitable for a smaller engine.


That's a bit of a mystery to me as well because these were purchased as part of a Weltmeister kit from the old Automotion (when they still knew what a Porsche was), and specifically for a 2.0L. They supposedly were already set up (generally) for the engine although it seems 28 is in the generally acceptable range. So what's the better venturi for a stock 2L? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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timothy_nd28
post Mar 22 2019, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2019, 11:42 AM) *

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Mar 22 2019, 12:34 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Wow. I'm looking for the eating crow emoji.

Not what I had envisioned as NOS. Were they stored outdoors?


Might as well have been. Ever spent a summer in eastern Kansas? Born and raised there but I don't recommend it. They were stored in my basement. Humidity would get so high the concrete walls and even insulated pipes would sweat. I guess these things are pretty prone to galvanic corrosion. Luckily, it looks to be just cosmetic once the residue is cleaned out. Glad to be out of that soup.


Basement walls sweating is not a good thing at all. Is your house in a area with a high water table or is the foundation built around clay? Never mind galvanic corrosion, I'm worried about mold spores and you getting sick.

Consider buying a whole house dehumidifier. They integrate with your furnace and will out perform any wheel barrel style dehumidifier. The initial cost is salty, but you can save by doing the install yourself, also happy to walk you thru the control wiring.
Also consider buying a UV lamp for your HVAC equipment, its a effective way to kill any mold spores that may be already floating around.
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MarkV
post Mar 22 2019, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2019, 01:23 PM) *

QUOTE(MarkV @ Mar 22 2019, 02:07 PM) *

Not sure why they came with 28's.... they might be more suitable for a smaller engine.


That's a bit of a mystery to me as well because these were purchased as part of a Weltmeister kit from the old Automotion (when they still knew what a Porsche was), and specifically for a 2.0L. They supposedly were already set up (generally) for the engine although it seems 28 is in the generally acceptable range. So what's the better venturi for a stock 2L? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


Mine came with 28's on a stock 2 liter. I think small vents make for more torque and I think 28 is as small as they come. Me going to 34's on my 2056 might have been somewhat aggressive but I can tell you it drove like a bus with 28's on it. It didn't want to rev and it had tons of torque. On a stock 2.0 a 32 is probably the way to go. I bet on a 1.7 or a 1.8 a 28 would work great. My previous 74 1.8 was easy to lug and had a lot less torque.
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bbrock
post Mar 22 2019, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE(timothy_nd28 @ Mar 22 2019, 02:33 PM) *

Basement walls sweating is not a good thing at all. Is your house in a area with a high water table or is the foundation built around clay? Never mind galvanic corrosion, I'm worried about mold spores and you getting sick.


Thanks for your concern but we haven't lived there for over 15 years. We were newlyweds and still in college when we bought that house. It was a really neat house out in the boonies on a lake but we were quite poor and couldn't afford AC. The basement was unfinished and a typical dank, cinder block wall storage space very common in the area. Humidity runs 80% there in the summer so even with all the windows open, and a whole house attic fan running, any air hitting those cool concrete walls quickly dropped its moisture. Still not as bad as Florida. I woke up in the Everglades once thinking it was raining before I remembered that I was INSIDE my VW bus and the rain was just dew dripping off the roof liner.

We finished off the basement and added AC much later which ended the humidity problem but that was only a couple years before we moved. Now we have radon instead!
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rhodyguy
post Mar 23 2019, 08:15 AM
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As noted, the 40s would have come with 28mm Venturi. Good vacuum signal down low. For a 2056 32mm vents would be more appropriate.
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bbrock
post Mar 23 2019, 08:36 AM
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More good info guys. I appreciate it. This is making me think maybe the 28s are a decent starting point for a 1911cc stock engine.
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Superhawk996
post Mar 23 2019, 09:30 AM
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Back in the day (meaning when I was younger and less edumacated). . .

I ran 32mm venturis on my 1.7L with a hot Weber cam. No torque but came alive between 3000 - 5000. It was fun on twisties where you could keep the rev's up. In the city . . . . not so much.

I wouldn't repeat that exercise again. Torque is really what makes for a driveable vehicle.

Agree 28's would be much better for torque and throttle response. May not be a bad place to start.

In the end you will need to tune it to your liking and once you start that, you'll have a much better idea of where you want to end up. Carbs are never perfect especially compared to a modern car with FI. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

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porschetub
post Mar 23 2019, 02:59 PM
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28mm vents will work fine,they will offer a great response down low and into the driving range we mostly use,check on carb size formula charts and from memory the 28 is only slighty too small,still sounds like you will be really close.
Yes larger vents will work but there is a trade off @ the bottom end within the range of the low speed (idle jets) due to decreased vacuum signal.
When I did my ''6'' Zeniths I first fitted 32mm vents ,engine bogged down low then felt like it was taking off @ higher rpm right up to the rev limiter,changed to 30mm vents and that really worked better,great response from idle to transition on to the mains.
Over size vents cause issues when fine tuning and also with fuel economy,my engine started better on the smaller vents as noted.
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bbrock
post May 21 2019, 08:22 PM
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I finally got around to this project. I have the first one squeaky clean from a functional standpoint but the corrosion left dark stains in the bodies I wonder if anyone knows a magic trick to get rid of.

I have new accelerator pump diaphragms and all rubber seals coming from Pierce Manifold. My float needle valves are solid brass and look brand new so I didn't order replacements.

Here's what the body looked like after disassembly. Since this carbs have never been used, I wasn't surprised they came apart without any fights or mishaps. Plenty of nasty corrosion though.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1558414550_thumb.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1558414588_thumb.jpg)

Since there was never any fuel in it to form petroleum based gunk and varnish, I skipped Berryman or any other strong solvents and just soaked the stripped body in diluted Pine-Sol, followed by rinse dry, then soda blasting, then rinse and dry. It's nice and clean, but rather ugly. Here's the worst side:

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The other side had less corrosion and looks better, but not great:

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The accelerator cover cleaned up nicely and is more what I was hoping the bodies would look like after soda blasting.

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A few things I've tested in hidden spots to try to brighten the dark spots are: Mother's Mag Polish, white vinegar, Griot's Diablo wheel cleaner, Jay Leno's Garage wheel cleaner. None worked. I have not tried oven cleaner, lemon juice, or boiling in anything.

Anyone know any tricks to make these look new again? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I'm getting worried there was some kind of protective coating applied that the corrosion took away. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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mepstein
post May 21 2019, 09:08 PM
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If you send them to me, I'll vapor blast them and then ultrasonic clean. They will look like new. No charge.

I think we have an unusable weber body that I can vapor blast to see what kind of finish it leaves on the body. It tends to leave a peened or ball burnished finish.

@bbrock

examples on this thread. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...37&hl=vapor


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bbrock
post May 22 2019, 07:26 AM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ May 21 2019, 09:08 PM) *

If you send them to me, I'll vapor blast them and then ultrasonic clean. They will look like new. No charge.

I think we have an unusable weber body that I can vapor blast to see what kind of finish it leaves on the body. It tends to leave a peened or ball burnished finish.


@mepstein that would be awesome! It might be a few days before I can tear down and clean the other carb. I'll PM you when I'm close. You're the best! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
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72hardtop
post May 30 2019, 02:42 PM
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At your altitude stay with the 28mm vent size combined with 47.5 idle jets, 120 mains, 200 air corrector jets, F11 tubes, Float height 10-11mm (w/gasket in place ball NOT depressed), fuel pressure no more than 3.5psi, float drop 28-32mm

As for LM-2 readings....

LBI it by ear don't use LM-2 for adjusting. End result should be in the 13-14AFR range at idle. Timing should be at min 7BTDC at idle (28BTDC full at 3200rpms) vac hose off.

WOT - 12.5:1 - low 13.2:1 or so

Part throttle/cruise....16-17AFR

Load = Throttle position

A 16-17AFR at part throttle/cruise is cooler running than 13AFR at cruise. No lean tune tuning with centrifugal only distributor. Get an SVDA on it.
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bbrock
post May 31 2019, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE(72hardtop @ May 30 2019, 02:42 PM) *

At your altitude stay with the 28mm vent size combined with 47.5 idle jets, 120 mains, 200 air corrector jets, F11 tubes, Float height 10-11mm (w/gasket in place ball NOT depressed), fuel pressure no more than 3.5psi, float drop 28-32mm

As for LM-2 readings....

LBI it by ear don't use LM-2 for adjusting. End result should be in the 13-14AFR range at idle. Timing should be at min 7BTDC at idle (28BTDC full at 3200rpms) vac hose off.

WOT - 12.5:1 - low 13.2:1 or so

Part throttle/cruise....16-17AFR

Load = Throttle position

A 16-17AFR at part throttle/cruise is cooler running than 13AFR at cruise. No lean tune tuning with centrifugal only distributor. Get an SVDA on it.


This is great info. Thanks for this. For the dizzy, I've decided to try the stock dizzy on this and see how it goes. Actually a DVDA which should work fine. If it doesn't, I'll swap it for a Pertronix SVDA. I have a NOS 050 I bought with the carbs way back when, but yeah, I'm not using it because I want vacuum advance.
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porschetub
post Jun 1 2019, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE(72hardtop @ May 31 2019, 08:42 AM) *

At your altitude stay with the 28mm vent size combined with 47.5 idle jets, 120 mains, 200 air corrector jets, F11 tubes, Float height 10-11mm (w/gasket in place ball NOT depressed), fuel pressure no more than 3.5psi, float drop 28-32mm

As for LM-2 readings....

LBI it by ear don't use LM-2 for adjusting. End result should be in the 13-14AFR range at idle. Timing should be at min 7BTDC at idle (28BTDC full at 3200rpms) vac hose off.

WOT - 12.5:1 - low 13.2:1 or so

Part throttle/cruise....16-17AFR

Load = Throttle position

A 16-17AFR at part throttle/cruise is cooler running than 13AFR at cruise. No lean tune tuning with centrifugal only distributor. Get an SVDA on it.


Very sound advice,the whole issue with the 09 is it advances to fast,these and the old 010's were basically made to work on industrial engines that required a fast advance when responding to a governor,and yes they made T4 industrial motors .
Fitted to a car engine this advance is just ok but causes somewhat of a "stumble'' as the advance is a little too much for the vacuum getting to the carb /carbs.
The Bosch original so called SVDA provided a slower increase in early advance from the vacuum side to the max set point of movement on the advance plate the mechanical side takes over till total advance is reached,so this all equals a smoother throttle response which tends to match better with carbs.
I have an original SVDA and a chinese knock-off, IMO the copy is pretty well made but will NEVER last as long as the Bosch,wee tip is to replace with Bosch the cap and rotor as not sure how good those parts are on the chinese unit.
On a fairly stock motor tuned well you will be fine ,rant over good luck.
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