New 914 rear wheel bearing, No to very little grease from manufacture Options

[Luke M]

So, I just purchased a set of New FAG wheel bearing (made in Germany) so I can install a set of the later (74-89) 911 rear hubs on my 914 control arms.
I saw a few you tube videos about how the bearings for the Boxster where being shipped with little to no grease in them. I figured before I install them to check the grease. Well sure enough one side had little grease and the other side had very little to no grease on the bearings. I should've taken a few pics but didn't have my phone handy. I still have another new bearing to inspect so I'll take pics of that one. I'm sure it will be the same way. Now to go pick up some grease and repack them.


So if anyone of you out there plan on replacing your rear bearing I would inspect them.

Here's a handy video which shows how to do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9P1R2clGAU

[914Sixer]

Luke,
Are those the ones I sent? They were old stock and I did not even think about checking. Those bearings were from the 1990's.

[mepstein]

I’ll check mine before I install. They need grease but not so much it packs the bearing full.

[Luke M]

Luke,
Are those the ones I sent? They were old stock and I did not even think about checking. Those bearings were from the 1990's.

Hi Mark,

Yes, the ones I just got from you. I'm guessing it's been an issue for awhile now. I'll pull the other bearing apart tmrw and post pics.
I just removed my old but new never run bearings.
I'll pull those apart too to see if there's grease in them.

[Superhawk996]

Don't want to rehash this whole topic. Brent and I had a good conversation on the state of bearing grease just a month or so ago.

Bottom line - you'd be surprised how little grease it takes to keep a bearing happy. You will never find a bearing fully packed. Don't get me wrong. Dry is unacceptable but over packing is just as bad.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...7290&st=720

[914Sixer]

I now wonder how much is ENOUGH.

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) That is the question isn't it.

The pictures that were posted in Brent's pages of the original grease pack was enough. They had grease on the cages but were not "packed".

The grease on the cages will distribute itself onto the balls and the race when it gets warm and has centrifugal force that will fling it radially outward bearing races.

As previously mentioned, the grease shouldn't be waxy if NOS bearings. As long as it has that viscous petroleum grease texture it will be OK.

Improper bearing installation technique is a lot more likely to lead to premature bearing failure than a light load of grease.

Again to avoid inflaming folks. No grease is not acceptable but it really does take a lot less that most of us think is necessary.

My advice is to trust the bearing manufacture's grease type and grease load. Any quality manufacturer (SKF, FAG, NSK, Timken, etc.) spends a lot of time to figure out what the right load is. The aftermarket bearings usually just copy what they find on OEM parts knowing that the OEM did the hard work and the development testing.

[mepstein]

I wondered after seeing the boxster video if it wasn’t because the guys seemed to take the car out of the trailer and immediately get it up to speed on the track. In contrast to a road car being driven at slower speeds for a while before it’s ever cornered at high speed. We’ve replaced dozens of rear wheel bearings at the shop and haven’t had any come back with issues. Just a thought.

[Luke M]

The other thing that I noticed with the grease is that it was chunky. The grease may have just deteriorated with age? These are new but old stock bearings.
I looked at Brent's post. His bearings had by far more grease in them then these.
It could be that with age (now 20 plus years) that the grease just broke down.
I will tear into the other bearing today and post pics of the findings.

[bbrock]

You have to scroll down to the second one I opened to see the bad one. The first one I opened had what looked like an adequate amount of grease. It was unevenly distributed, but both bearing races had enough grease to be lubricated while the grease redistributed itself from use.

The second bearing I opened (same manufacturer purchased at the same time) was a different story. One side of the bearing was completely bone dry without even a hint of grease. The other side had such a small amount that there is no way it would have been enough to lubricate both sides, and even if it was, one side of the bearing would have run dry for some time before the grease redistributed. I'd say that bearing had maybe 1/5th the amount total as the first bearing.

From what I saw, there is absolutely a quality control problem with these bearings and I wouldn't trust that the manufacturer is greasing them properly. There shouldn't be huge differences in the quantity of grease from bearing to bearing.

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

Bearings don't need much "lube" to run for long periods of time especially if the loads are light and they are light in road going vehicles. Race cars pulling high lateral G's for long periods of time are another story.

What kills bearings the fastest are things like vibratory loads and false brinelling. False brinellling can easily occur on race cars that are tied down too tightly in trailers and then proceed to vibrate or oscillate the bearings with no rotary motion.

https://www.ntnglobal.com/en/products/care/...e/fretting.html

Any reputable OEM has pretty good quality control checks in place to ensure grease is put into the bearing. More applicable to new bearings. NOS predates my involvement with the bearing suppliers. Grease flow meters are built into the line. Bearing won't move to next station and/or line stops if flow meters don't register grease injection. Vision systems look for presence of bearings, cages, and grease otherwise no-go. There may even be a visual check by a real human prior to seal installation.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) still can happen though but it is rare.

Bad information on interwebz (including me - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) ) is statistically more likely than a mainstream OEM kicking out thousands upon thousands of bad bearings.

Food for thought.

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

The other thing to keep in mind for you guys tracking vehicles or racing is that high lateral G's for sustained periods are typically outside the production vehicle operating envelope (including Boxter's and 911's).

High lateral loads force the load in the bearing raceway diagonally upward on the bearing race vs. the normal downward force from gravity. This puts more pressure & load on the thinner portion of the bearing raceway up near the square edge.

In extreme cases, the ball to race loads can be moved up high enough that you'll begin to deform the raceway and this begins a death spiral of pitting and material deformation in the raceway and debris circulating in the bearing.

Bottom line - bearings are a consumable item if racing. Do proper maintenance before failures occur. Higher temp grease will help delay this but it will eventually occur due to the way the load is being applied up high on the raceway and for the extended duration that it is applied during racing or track use that the bearing wasn't designed for.

See video below at the 0:56 second mark. Note how high up on the raceway the damage is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A5kf5pXl4w

[bbrock]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) still can happen though but it is rare.

Bad information on interwebz (including me - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) ) is statistically more likely than a mainstream OEM kicking out thousands upon thousands of bad bearings.

Food for thought.

You're a real Woody Woodpecker... a trouble maker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

All I can speak for is what I saw. I opened what should have been two identical bearings and found significant differences in the amount of grease inside. I agree about not trusting what you find on the Interwebs, but what I found with only two bearings fit perfectly with what the "Interweb experts" were saying.

In the video you posted, you'll notice the guy who opens the bearing says that one actually looks pretty good but has more grease than other ones he opened which indicates he's seen the same variability I found in only opening two.. My first bearing I opened had about this same amount of grease and i also thought it looked okay. But the second one, no way.

The vid in the original post is a good tutorial on opening the bearings, but I would say the bearing he opened had adequate grease. It seems to me the area he points out with "no grease" would have been lubricated after the first few rotations of the bearing. On one that I opened, one whole side (bearing cage and race) was completely dry and I think there is a good chance you could be driving at speed for some time before any of the stingy amount of grease on the other side found its way over.

Obviously my observation isn't definitive and I'm no expert, but from what I, and others have seen, I think at least a quick inspection before installing these bearings is time well spent.

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

And to think - I started off never intending rehash the topic to this degree.

[bbrock]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

And to think - I started off never intending rehash the topic to this degree.

[Superhawk996]

In the spirit of Laurel and Hardy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzNbCWBJsSg

[KELTY360]

In the spirit of Laurel and Hardy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzNbCWBJsSg

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Luke M]

I got around to repacking the bearings today.
I opened up the second bearing and found that it had a little more grease in it.
The grease looked better in this bearing also not as chunky but still didn't seam or feel right. I cleaned it all up and installed new grease. I feel better now knowing there's grease in the bearings. I would hate to do this all over if a bearing failed.

Check the pics and you decide if that's enough grease in there.
I can tell you this, one bearing was 90% dry on one side.

[worn]

So, I just purchased a set of New FAG wheel bearing (made in Germany) so I can install a set of the later (74-89) 911 rear hubs on my 914 control arms.
I saw a few you tube videos about how the bearings for the Boxster where being shipped with little to no grease in them. I figured before I install them to check the grease. Well sure enough one side had little grease and the other side had very little to no grease on the bearings. I should've taken a few pics but didn't have my phone handy. I still have another new bearing to inspect so I'll take pics of that one. I'm sure it will be the same way. Now to go pick up some grease and repack them.


So if anyone of you out there plan on replacing your rear bearing I would inspect them.

Here's a handy video which shows how to do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9P1R2clGAU

That is an excellent YouTube video of a person pushing hydrocarbons across his skin and into his bloodstream. Sure, we’ve all done it. Not saying that I have great knowledge about nitrile gloves from hf, but I sure use them. Oily chemicals cross the skin fairly well.

[shane]

This is probably a dumb question but it’s not my first, i installed new bearings in the rear a couple years ago and the cars been riding its jack stands ever since. Is it possible to check for grease after installing them? Or do anything about it if there dry?