Suspension, Improving ride Options

[framos914]

Just got my 75 2.0 back on the road after 24 years in the back of the garage. Last time I drove it back in 94 everything was pretty tight and smooth, now it seems to be all over the place. Was hoping to take it to WCR.
Any suggestions on where to start with the suspension?
Has 76 911S front koni struts, S calipers and sway bar. Rear 914-6 components.
Thanks

[sixnotfour]

if the tires are 24 yrs old , that would be #1

[framos914]

Tires are only a couple of years old

[falcor75]

"All over the place" isnt much to go on. What exactly is it that doesnt seem right?
Noises? Vibrations? Did you drive it on the same size wheels and tires back then?

[mepstein]

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Yes, try to be more descriptive and check air pressure. I find I ride a lot lower pressure than what’s on the sidewall.

[Superhawk996]

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Tires are prone to flat spotting if stored in 1 place with weight of vehicle on them. Tires that aren't round don't help ride quality. This can occur on tires that are only a couple of years old. Heck, this happens on new tires even when parked overnight but the roughness will roll out with a few miles of driving. If stored that way long term the deformation will become permanent and will not go away with driving.

I'll also throw out another "out there" theory. Vehicle ride quality of the whole automobile market has improved enormously since 1994. You may have become used to modern ride quality on your daily driver and are expecting a sports car from the 70's to compete. It won't.

Per previous notes - better description of exactly what is occurring will help.

To mepstein's point, the pressure on the side wall is the tire's maximum inflation pressure to carry maximum load at rated tire speed. 26 front/29 rear was placard for the OEM 165 width 15" tires.

Also when you say it was "all over the place"; make sure you're not evaluating on a freeway with rain groves, or on a roadway with tire ruts within the lane. Either of these will make a vehicle wander side to side.

[Andyrew]

I would do the following:

Oil change
Bleed brakes
Alignment
Check date on tires, replace if older than 5 years
Nut and bolt everything from the steering wheel to the lug nuts. It would only take you a couple hours to do so but would give you peace of mind.

[jim_hoyland]

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1.Tires
2. Alignment
3. Replace the rubber brake lines, and do a complete bleed

See you at WCR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[bdstone914]

@framos914

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I am in riverside. If you bring your car by I can look it over for you.
As others suggested. I will PM my phone number. Like to meet local teeners.

1. Check tires pressures.
2. Check and adjust front wheel bearings if needed.
3. Check inner and outer tire rods ends for play.
4. Check steering rack for play.
5. Check rear wheel bearings.
6. Check front and rear suspension bushings.
7. Do a bounce test on front shocks.

And please provide more detail on: all over the place. Under what speed and driving conditions ?

Bruce

[framos914]

Thanks everyone, this was my first post so i wasn't very descriptive.
Part of the problem could be my memory of how the car handled 24 years ago and the power it had, definitely different if compared to today's cars.
My issue is that the steering seems to have a bit too much play, a rougher ride than I remember and when I hit any kind of bump it will jump and feel a little out of control (gotta hold the wheel a little tighter) feels ok at freeway speeds on smooth surface.
Has new brakes and refurbished calipers by PMB, brakes bled, rebuilt engine and trans, all new bushings in shifter. I plan on replacing the bushings in the sway bar (look worn), installing new strut inserts and shocks (they must be about 35 years old), check the rest of bushings, ball joints, tie rods and steering rack. As far as the tires, I want something wider and sportier than the stock 165/80r15, have 15x7 wheels and current tires are used 205/60 which could also be part of the problem.
Thanks again. And thanks for the offer Bruce I will be in touch

[Racer]

Bit of a bunch of things I imagine..

1) Modern ride quality has hurt your view of how the 914 should feel
2) Memory of just how good it once was (or wasn't)
3) Rubber component aging (bushings etc)
4) your own age and willingness to be "uncomfortable" with how it drives

Soft 60 series tires would actually help absorb road roughness, imho. Lower profile, wider tires, while they would improve immediate cornering response might actually hurt overall ride characteristics.

Get to WCR anyway.. at the very least, you can ask for ride/drives in similar cars to see if what you are chasing is relatively normal or a complete anomoly.

[mepstein]

New strut inserts, shocks and springs can make a huge difference. On all the 914's I've purchased in the last 10 years - about 20, they were all dead or dying. If the springs are worn out, you loose a lot of travel before the shocks bottom out. The wheel should only need a light touch for most driving so work your way through the checklist. And go to WCR no matter what since many of the great 914 minds will be there to help you sort the car.

When you did the brakes, I hope you did new soft lines. No matter how they look, they are dead after 35 years. The same goes with fuel lines. Be safe, not sorry.

[porschetub]

My car rode really badly in the front,steering was very nervous over bumps and I was getting strange feedback @ the steering wheel.
Pulled the Bilstein inserts and they were basically seized,replaced them and problem gone,did the front swaybar drop link bushes soon after,I haven't owned one of these cars before but I think the ride is now as good as you can get.
Replace your shocks and inserts and report back (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) .

[mbseto]

That's a nice looking slant-nose.

[framos914]

That's a nice looking slant-nose.

Thanks, PO did the slant, fenders and suspension in 1981. I've owned it since 1982.

[Superhawk996]

"when I hit any kind of bump it will jump and feel a little out of control (gotta hold the wheel a little tighter)"

Still not sure about what you're describing.

What jumps? The steering wheel? (you mention having to hold tighter)

One thing to note in comparison to any modern car is that a 914 has a manual rack and pinion steering system. You will get A LOT more feedback in this car vs. any modern vehicle. Actual road feedback in the steering wheel is sorely lacking in almost all modern cars due to power assisted steering.

You also mention the steering seems to have too much play. This should not be the case the steering should be TIGHT. If you have play you have worn out components somewhere.

Prime Suspects that add play to steering:
Either the inner or the outer tie rod ends that go between the steering rack and the knuckle or both. The inner were rubber and can be degraded and/or dried out over time. The outer are a ball joint and could be worn.

The other thing that might be contributing is worn struts. 914's have some pretty bad bump steer characteristics. If a strut is worn and allows the suspension to easily travel to full jounce or full rebound, you'll get bump steer effects that can be felt in the steering wheel and will also make the vehicle feel "darty" or lacking straight line stability when it hits a bump in the road.

Per previous notes, you're going to have to work though this stuff one component at a time, inspect and replace as you go when you find worn components.

Part of the joy of a 45-50 year old car!

[framos914]

"when I hit any kind of bump it will jump and feel a little out of control (gotta hold the wheel a little tighter)"

Still not sure about what you're describing.

What jumps? The steering wheel? (you mention having to hold tighter)

One thing to note in comparison to any modern car is that a 914 has a manual rack and pinion steering system. You will get A LOT more feedback in this car vs. any modern vehicle. Actual road feedback in the steering wheel is sorely lacking in almost all modern cars due to power assisted steering.

You also mention the steering seems to have too much play. This should not be the case the steering should be TIGHT. If you have play you have worn out components somewhere.

Prime Suspects that add play to steering:
Either the inner or the outer tie rod ends that go between the steering rack and the knuckle or both. The inner were rubber and can be degraded and/or dried out over time. The outer are a ball joint and could be worn.

The other thing that might be contributing is worn struts. 914's have some pretty bad bump steer characteristics. If a strut is worn and allows the suspension to easily travel to full jounce or full rebound, you'll get bump steer effects that can be felt in the steering wheel and will also make the vehicle feel "darty" or lacking straight line stability when it hits a bump in the road.

Per previous notes, you're going to have to work though this stuff one component at a time, inspect and replace as you go when you find worn components.

Part of the joy of a 45-50 year old car!

What I'm experiencing does feel like what you describe as bump steer. My next step is to go through all the suspension components and replace worn parts. since everything is about 40 years old I'm sure that's where my problem lies.
Thanks

[infraredcalvin]

I’m with the guys above, check the aged maintenance items then have the alignment redone, then you’ll have a baseline.

I also 2nd the idea of “what I remember it like” as 24 years is a long time and your body, reflexes, and experiences are going to jade your memory.

I recently picked up a mostly race, but streetable 914 and drove it a bit on the streets, it’s been almost 20 years since I drove a 914, the biggest thing I forgot is how light the car is, and how short the wheelbase is, and with the suspension so tight I found myself getting airborne while navigating dips, and bumps. My DD, with a relatively sporty suspension that some would consider tight and rough, absorbs those same bumps with ease.

Get your baseline set, then make adjustments from there.

Nice car BTW, I really dig your rear fender flares.