Thoughts on putting a Chevy/GMC late model 4.3L or 3.6L engine in 914, 4 Options

[9144me2enjoy]

What are your thoughts or problems to be expected on either putting a Aluminum 2014 Chevy 4.3L V6 LV3 engine (285hp/305 lb Torque) in a 914 using a 901 Transmission or a 2017 Aluminum GM 3.6L V6 LGZ engine (308hp/275 lb torque) in a 914 using a 901 transmission? I’ve checked with Kennedy they have the correct adapter kit for the engines to the 901 transmission. Both engines weigh 340-400 lbs. each. What draws my attention to these engines is the late model technology, weight, size, hp, torque.....I know the stock new E92 ECU would probably be a bear. I realize the 901 trans would have to have the upper gears addressed and beefier axles and cooling would have to be addressed. Thanks

[SirAndy]

Lots of cutting and cursing.
Gotta run plumbing to the front, lose front trunk to the big ass radiator.
Gonna dump hot air on your front brakes, trunk will always be full of dirt.
Can't use 1st gear with that torque, so effectively the 901 will be a 4 speed, taking off in 2nd.
Weight higher in the car. Wiring nightmare.


Those are just a few things the immediately come to mind, probably going to be more.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mueller]

See this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=340116

Can you do a standalone ECU for the LGZ?

[9144me2enjoy]

Thanks for the thread, I missed it somehow! SirAndy and Mueller appreciate your feed back. I have lots of research to do....have a great day.

[twistedstang]

Same effort and money as a LS.. less motor.

[Mikey914]

@speedmetalarmy did a really nice job with an LS swap. If I did it LS would be what I’d do.

[9144me2enjoy]

Thanks

[Chi-town]

You should cover these thoughts if you decide to swap anything into a 914:

What will I get for my investment
How will affect the driving / Handling / reliability of the car
What Supporting modifications will in need to make (Cooling/Drive train/wiring)
Do I have the skills to do it or will I need a professional (Most of us need professional help! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

And this one I always throw in:

For the money spent can you buy a car that will do what you want and save time/effort/money/aggrivation? (Miata/Cheap Boxster/Cheap 996/ Vespa Scooter) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[9144me2enjoy]

#3 Vespa Scooter, I think you’ve been talking to my wife!

[914forme]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

So I will take a stab at that side of the coin. What I have invested in tooling, both the basics and some really cool fab tools, the parts again some basic and some very high end cool stuff. I do not mind paying for high quality stuff. I added it all up, and I could have ran down okay walked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) to the Porsche dealer, and dropped my name on the list for a Cayman GT4. Had coin left over to get get a new z51 C8. Or walked over to that British company that dominated F1, and brought home something with a 7xxS in its name. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) If that is your thing you would not have asked the question or carried on a really long conversation about a 914 TDI (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Pick your engine and build the car. Sometimes you have to build the car around the engine sometimes the car is built for an engine and it takes a dreamer with a vision to make everyone realize just how wrong they where and the type-4 or even the holy grail 911 engine just might not have been the right engine for the car that was a vision 50 years ago, and still has potential today.

Factory played the hot rod game, and we are just up holding that time honored tradition. Get out there, cut weld, spin a few spanners, and get the dang car build. Then drive.

I was once told by a sage man, a running 914 is better than no 914. Thank you @McMark (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[9144me2enjoy]

Very true!

[Superhawk996]

Lots of cutting and cursing.
Gotta run plumbing to the front, lose front trunk to the big ass radiator.
Gonna dump hot air on your front brakes, trunk will always be full of dirt.
Can't use 1st gear with that torque, so effectively the 901 will be a 4 speed, taking off in 2nd.
Weight higher in the car. Wiring nightmare.


Those are just a few things the immediately come to mind, probably going to be more.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You forgot higher center of gravity and degraded handling. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Chi-town]

Aluminum LS is about the same weight as a -6 with a center of gravity just slightly higher which gets offset by the weight of the radiator and coolant lines filled with coolant at the lowest points of the car.

Technically a -6 oil tank raises the COG also (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Ad to that a much better shifting and stronger Boxster S trans which makes a 901 look like the stone ages (which it is).

As for wiring, I wouldn't consider having to connect Batt power, Switched Ignition power, and ground a "mess " or a "nightmare". The availability of standalone harnesses for cheap have eliminated this issue.

Old school SBC, 12v switched for the HEI and Alt. Generator light hook up And a ground. Done

There's a reason there's so many V8 swaps out there and why Renegade is booked solid.

It was originally my second option after the suby

[SirAndy]

There's a reason there's so many V8 swaps out there and why Renegade is booked solid.

There's also a reason why most of them look like someone hacked them together over a weekend while someone else was holding their beer.
When they are done with attention to detail they can be great but somehow most of them are the exact opposite.

It seems the v6/8 conversion route is often taken as the last ditch effort to get a rotting 914 back on the road.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Mueller]

There's a reason there's so many V8 swaps out there and why Renegade is booked solid.

There's also a reason why most of them look like someone hacked them together over a weekend while someone else was holding their beer.
When they are done with attention to detail they can be great but somehow most of them are the exact opposite.

It seems the v6/8 conversion route is often taken as the last ditch effort to get a rotting 914 back on the road.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Guilty as charged. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

[Chris914n6]

The 3.6 is a sports car motor, used in the Camaro & Caddys. The 4.3 has always been a truck motor (3/4 a 350 sbc).

The 3.6 would be the better choice. How well it fits with all the VVT & new tech is to be seen.
The LS is a fairly compact motor as it's still pushrod design where everything else is DOHC. Plus the LS swap has been done and sorted.

[Andyrew]

I added it all up, and I could have ran down okay walked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) to the Porsche dealer, and dropped my name on the list for a Cayman GT4. Had coin left over to get get a new z51 C8.

I have a feeling that a lot of the v8 conversions will go away and H6 conversions will be made of them in a few years as the demand for good H6 cars skyrocket and the people who want a cheap fast mid engine v8 car will go the route of the MUCH nicer c8 for similar money..

[Superhawk996]

Aluminum LS is about the same weight as a -6 with a center of gravity just slightly higher which gets offset by the weight of the radiator and coolant lines filled with coolant at the lowest points of the car.

Technically a -6 oil tank raises the COG also (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


There's a reason there's so many V8 swaps out there and why Renegade is booked solid.

No disrespect to any of the guys doing V6/V8/V10/V12 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) conversions. To each his own. I applaud you guys for the fabrication and the effort involved in your chosen path. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

I mean this as a discussion of the engineering and physics which is clear. LS or not, the upward movement of the center of gravity is higher and more significant than estimated. I'll even give the benefit of assuming the LS being dry sumped. CG is moving higher with any Vee arrangement than with a flat boxer engine. Don't get me started on what it would be with a wet sump! In the case of a 914, moving the CG upward relative to the vehicle roll center is not going to be a good thing with a semi-trailing arm rear suspension.

Granted, most people don't have the equipment to do a serious CG / moments of inertia study, but, you can do a pretty accurate CG measurement and not guess. Measurements can be made with basic racing scales by the method below.

http://www.longacreracing.com/technical-ar...aspx?item=42586

Saying that movement of the CG is partially offset by having the coolant and radiator is partially true, but, what has been done is that the polar moment of inertia of the vehicle has been increased by moving that mass of radiator and coolant to the front of the vehicle. Again, not the direction you want to go to improve handling.

You are correct that 911 oil tank moves CG up, but, the mass as placed by Porsche is still centralized to the engine area to maintain a very low polar moment of inertia relative to most other cars on the road. If you really wanted, that oil tank could be moved elsewhere, but, at the risk of adding yaw inertia. Ideal place to relocate would probably be the passenger seat area in a flat tank at floor level. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

My last point would be regardless of how many V8 / Renegades might be out there, that still doesn't offset the physics with respect to handling degradation's. It just speaks to our American penchant for Rule #1 of Hot Rod culture which is there is no replacement for displacement. America is a land of long straight roads so lots of torque, high HP, and ease of driving are weighted favorably by most at the expense of handling.

[Superhawk996]

I added it all up, and I could have ran down okay walked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) to the Porsche dealer, and dropped my name on the list for a Cayman GT4. Had coin left over to get get a new z51 C8.

I have a feeling that a lot of the v8 conversions will go away and H6 conversions will be made of them in a few years as the demand for good H6 cars skyrocket and the people who want a cheap fast mid engine v8 car will go the route of the MUCH nicer c8 for similar money..

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

the mid engine Vette is seriously interesting.

[Chi-town]

The -6 oil tank and lines are hardly "centered" since they are all on the outer edge of the LH side of the car?