Tracking the 914 - Need some street love too..., Turning this into a regular thing... Options

[Justinp71]

Paul Abbot pretty much retired. You may be able to find another resource on pelican parts or rebuild yourself, most of the parts were available. Paul may be selling some documentation.

Do you have webers or PMO's? Weber parts are below-
https://www.piercemanifolds.com/category_s/249.htm

I have some documents too if you need something. I recently converted to EFI but I don't know if I'd recommend if for more of a track car, its alot of work and the main advantage is more streetability and direct easy tuning.

[infraredcalvin]

Thanks all for the info, I've got a bit of an update, top end is getting torn down as we speak, will be checking and cleaning up heads and identifying cam, then putting her back together, inclusive of a new set of PMOs...

It's giving me the opportunity to see what's inside so that it can be put back hopefully finding my missing hp. I like her raw character now, maybe look at FI in the future as she becomes more street than track.

Trying to say away from the slippery slope while she's apart...

[Justinp71]

Ya it becomes a slippery slope, last year I had an oil change turn into a complete motor topside refresh with EFI.

If you are considering EFI, one thing to think about is ideally they use a different cam than carbs with more idle vacuum, I am running EFI with a carb cam. It works fine but I run it a little more on the rich side to make sure it doesn't get lean. It is still massively leaner/more efficient than carbs. I have found though there are a lot of smells that come from fuel vapors all over the car and also the engine breather.

Also if you need any carb info there is a ton on the Performance Oriented site- https://www.performanceoriented.com/history...uretors-on-911s

[infraredcalvin]

Ha, speaking of smells...

I want to replace the main fuel supply line (it has no return) with SS lines. The PO installed all oil and fuel braided lines with -AN fittings (approx 15+ years ago). I'm starting to get some weeping in the oil lines and fuel smells are getting stronger so time to replace those ASAP. I'm keeping with the AN fittings, I want to stay away from hose barbs/rubber hoses and clamps.

I have SS fuel lines, I bought the correct size compression fittings with the correct -AN ends. While reading the install data for the fittings (they are black anodized Al) I saw a specific warning not to use with SS tubing, as they will eventually leak. I forgot, different metals = corrosion.

I started looking for new compression to an fittings, which i found a few, but that also means the -AN hose end that connected to the SS fitting also needs to be stainless. I'm having trouble finding stainless hose end fittings (for nylon braided fuel hose)...

Am I overthinking this? Thoughts?

[Justinp71]

Hmm... that's a decent point. You need an electrolyte to make the galvanic corrosion and the fittings are coated all though the coating can flake off some (gas is not an electrolyte). I would be more concerned about the threaded fittings (al to ss). You can get electrolytes from external water if its in the rain. The corrosion is from electrical current flow moving from the anode to cathode thru the water, so if it stays dry its not really a problem.

I think I have SS lines (or steel?) and al AN fittings...lol.

Can you braze on aluminum AN ends with a material/metal that's an isolator? BTW hose barbed ends with EFI clamps can take a fair amount of pressure but I agree I don't like to use them around the engine, but will use them around the gas tank.

[infraredcalvin]

Ok, back to basics, the -6 has been sitting at the shop, waiting for funds, that’s finally handled, so here we go, doing it right… tearing down the whole top end, to clean and inspect. Since it’ll be apart it’s time to measure and check what I have…

Heads, already twin plugged, hopefully just a bead blast and measure
Carbs new PMO 50s?
Cams, most likely something new, something right - going with Elgin - I bet I’ll find my missing 100 hp
Dyno tune

Down the slippery slope I go…

[BillJ]

Good luck my friend

[infraredcalvin]

Update:

One giant step backwards and a tiny step forward….

Well she’s back together, had to chase metal, found embedded in piston rings so broke it down to the crank, thankfully nothing in the case. New pistons, new rockers, reground custom cam by D Elgin, fresh headwork, and 46 PMOs… we definitely found some weird things from the DAPO build, they were all corrected with the rebuild. Ok she’s gonna scream, right??!!

WRONG! On the dyno 172 hp to the wheels, talk about wah wah… so disappointed, it took a lot of tuning and playing with the electromotive ignition (dual HPV-1) to get there. Motor wants to go, but feeling like timing is crapping out. Can’t see pulley through the tiny peephole in the firewall (mech wants to cut a hatch, I don’t want it!). Can’t see the flywheel cause the dual ignition boards are mounted in the way, so we have to trust the signal through a voltmeter from the ignition boards… hmmm. Split the boards and just running on lower plugs got us the 172. Did the boards get fried from the fire??? Shoot, the banks is dry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

[slivel]

Update:

WRONG! On the dyno 172 hp to the wheels, talk about wah wah… so disappointed, it took a lot of tuning and playing with the electromotive ignition (dual HPV-1) to get there. Motor wants to go, but feeling like timing is crapping out. Can’t see pulley through the tiny peephole in the firewall (mech wants to cut a hatch, I don’t want it!). Can’t see the flywheel cause the dual ignition boards are mounted in the way, so we have to trust the signal through a voltmeter from the ignition boards… hmmm. Split the boards and just running on lower plugs got us the 172. Did the boards get fried from the fire??? Shoot, the banks is dry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

What were your air/fuel ratios on the dyno? Maybe post the dyno sheet.

Here is one from my 914.

[infraredcalvin]

Steve, thanks, i don't have the dyno sheets yet, but my mech says he’s a bit rich up top. He’s already dialed in 30 deg advance via a voltmeter on the HPV-1. He was concerned to push it any further.

Could you please share your induction type and size, ignition, and exhaust header size?

Thanks!

[stownsen914]

This motor is quite the mystery ...

30 degrees of advance is a lot for a twin plug. I've heard experienced builders mention 25-27 range on a race motor. Porsche apparently chose 25 degrees on the late aircooled RSRs.

Do you have another ignition to try, to rule out possible issues with the HPV unit?

Anything odd about the heads when you had it apart?

Sounds like you're still missing 100 hp somewhere.

[infraredcalvin]

30 deg is only using the bottom plugs. He was able to get +/-10 more hp eliminating the top plugs, so thinking the top plug hpv board may be bad, the lower possibly close behind…

Yes, we’re totally stumped on why we’re missing HP…

[Charles Freeborn]

30 deg is only using the bottom plugs. He was able to get +/-10 more hp eliminating the top plugs, so thinking the top plug hpv board may be bad, the lower possibly close behind…

Yes, we’re totally stumped on why we’re missing HP…

Perhaps rig up a camera of some sort to watch the timing marks?

[slivel]

Steve, thanks, i don't have the dyno sheets yet, but my mech says he’s a bit rich up top. He’s already dialed in 30 deg advance via a voltmeter on the HPV-1. He was concerned to push it any further.

Could you please share your induction type and size, ignition, and exhaust header size?

Thanks!

Sorry for the delay, I was unable to post for a while.

Induction: Weber 46's
Ignition: twin plug crankfire Electromotive, 1 HPV and 1 HPX
Exhaust header: 1 5/8" tubes