possible MSD disaster, could I have fried my ignition |
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possible MSD disaster, could I have fried my ignition |
moneysmarts |
Mar 8 2020, 08:36 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central Massachusetts Member No.: 1,745 Region Association: None |
Thought I'd get geared up for the spring
New plugs, rotor, cap, wires, and Bosch Blue coil. All installed, nice and neat, fired up the engine, ran fine for 60 seconds....then dead. No spark at all. Put all the old stuff back, still no spark. Is my new coil not compatible? It's the same part number as the one I've been running for 10 years. Did I smoke the MSD 6AL? Please advise |
Retroracer |
Mar 8 2020, 10:48 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 7-July 13 From: Bend OR Member No.: 16,100 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Some thoughts on things to check:
1) the MSD 6AL has a LED which can aid in diagnostics; pull up the instruction PDF and see the options listed; this has helped me in the past 2) I've read that the MSD boxes are unhappy with solid core plug wires; were your fresh new wires solid core? Unclear on the failure mechanism that results, whether coil or MSD box would suffer (or both) 3) check basic +12V battery and switched connections with a DVM or tester to make sure no connections were corrupted (and a solid GND connection from the MSD box too) hope this helps..... - Tony |
moneysmarts |
Mar 9 2020, 06:16 AM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central Massachusetts Member No.: 1,745 Region Association: None |
Thanks Tony
I used the MSD instructions to short the purple and green wires from the box. It is producing a spark from the coil wire to ground. Not sure if that means the box is still functioning. My new plug wires were silicone metallic core, but I swapped then back to the bosch solid copper one's that have been on the car for 5 years. Still no action. |
IronHillRestorations |
Mar 9 2020, 07:09 AM
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#4
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,714 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None |
What engine engine and distributor, and why did you use the green and purple?
The green and purple wires are for a magnetic pickup distributor. Pertronix is not considered a true magnetic pickup. |
wndsrfr |
Mar 9 2020, 07:16 AM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 30-April 09 From: Rescue, Virginia Member No.: 10,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Thought I'd get geared up for the spring New plugs, rotor, cap, wires, and Bosch Blue coil. All installed, nice and neat, fired up the engine, ran fine for 60 seconds....then dead. No spark at all. Put all the old stuff back, still no spark. Is my new coil not compatible? It's the same part number as the one I've been running for 10 years. Did I smoke the MSD 6AL? Please advise If you're still using points in the dizzy look closely at them... I've seen a case where the phenolic rub strip that rides on the shaft was worn down to where the points could not open at all.... |
moneysmarts |
Mar 9 2020, 07:25 AM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central Massachusetts Member No.: 1,745 Region Association: None |
It's a bosch 009
'74 2.0 The points are still in there, but set to a wide gap. Been running this setup like a champ for years. |
moneysmarts |
Mar 9 2020, 07:34 AM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central Massachusetts Member No.: 1,745 Region Association: None |
Also new plugs gapped at .7mm
Same as previous set up |
Gatornapper |
Mar 9 2020, 07:56 AM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,205 Joined: 22-September 17 From: Woods west of Richmond, VA Member No.: 21,449 Region Association: South East States |
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moneysmarts |
Mar 9 2020, 08:10 AM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central Massachusetts Member No.: 1,745 Region Association: None |
I can look at the part number stamp and clarify.
But it's the same distributor I've had in the car since 1993. That hasn't changed. What I renewed was the coil, plugs, plug wires, cap, and rotor. As far as I can tell, all identical to the old parts. |
wndsrfr |
Mar 9 2020, 08:33 AM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 30-April 09 From: Rescue, Virginia Member No.: 10,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
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moneysmarts |
Mar 9 2020, 08:59 AM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central Massachusetts Member No.: 1,745 Region Association: None |
It's a bosch 009 '74 2.0 The points are still in there, but set to a wide gap. Been running this setup like a champ for years. Are they closing properly? Use a test light or VOM to see that the points are closing and opening... I'm on it late today. Thank you |
IronHillRestorations |
Mar 9 2020, 09:44 AM
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#12
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,714 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None |
The green and purple wires are for a magnetic pickup distributor, and your 009 is not. Pertronix isn't a true magnetic pickup, so it uses the white wire just like a points distributor.
edit: I've never read anything about shorting the mag pickup wires, and I've done several engine harnesses that have used the white wire. My guess is that fried your MSD box |
stownsen914 |
Mar 9 2020, 09:59 AM
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#13
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 913 Joined: 3-October 06 From: Ossining, NY Member No.: 6,985 Region Association: None |
Maybe try tracing spark through the system. Sounds like you get one from the MSD. Can you try triggering it from the distributor and see if you get spark from the coil? Make sure the points are clean, that's easy to check. Coils fail, do you have a spare to try?
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moneysmarts |
Mar 9 2020, 10:21 AM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central Massachusetts Member No.: 1,745 Region Association: None |
Maybe try tracing spark through the system. Sounds like you get one from the MSD. Can you try triggering it from the distributor and see if you get spark from the coil? Make sure the points are clean, that's easy to check. Coils fail, do you have a spare to try? Well, I used a jumper to ground the magnetic pick-up wire hanging unused from the MSD box, but evidently that's not the correct procedure to check the MSD for functionality. I try to figure out another way to diagnose that. I swapped my old coil back in, without success. I have no idea how to get a spark from the coil, as you suggest. I did roll the car so the lobe on the distributor shaft was at the max point and I have good points gap there. |
Root_Werks |
Mar 9 2020, 10:58 AM
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#15
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,308 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
You mentioned you installed the MSD. If this means you were running regular points/condenser setup, you'll need to remove the condenser for the MSD.
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moneysmarts |
Mar 9 2020, 11:10 AM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central Massachusetts Member No.: 1,745 Region Association: None |
You mentioned you installed the MSD. If this means you were running regular points/condenser setup, you'll need to remove the condenser for the MSD. I didn't install the MSD It came on the car in 2004 when I purchased it. Has run perfectly with that setup for past 15 years. (interestingly, the condenser has always been installed) |
stownsen914 |
Mar 9 2020, 12:51 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 913 Joined: 3-October 06 From: Ossining, NY Member No.: 6,985 Region Association: None |
Sounds like you've done the right things to troubleshoot so far by putting back all the old parts that worked. I'd troubleshoot one step at a time to find the weak link. I.e. measure voltage being output from the MSD, then verify spark from the coil, etc.
In case the MSD is suspect, try wiring up the ignition the old fashioned way with just the coil and see if you get spark that way. |
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