914-6 Conversion Shift Linkage Question, (Firewall Back) Options

[JOEPROPER]

@tdskip try to return the naroscape if you can and go with the mad dog oem. Its a little more, think I padis ~400 for the mount and bushing, but it will be worth it having everything sit where it is supposed to.

Sounds like there are going to be mods either way. I'm going to mount my Naro Escape mount 3/4" higher with engine and trans installed to make sure installed height and angles are correct. This will be my first conversion on a 914 and like everyone else, will deal with whatever modifications need to be made. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[RichPugh]

Oh boy - I was planning on welding in the Naro Mount on my /6 today. This is giving me pause...

If you do just weld it 3/4" higher then it says. Also note I found that it pulls the trans mounts forward about 7 degrees which translates to the mount being to short aft in my mind.

This >>> 100%. Maybe even higher up... the front rubber seal would slip under the -6 engine tins if it were up almost an inch. It absolutely pulls it forward too as my trans mounts are at the very limit of what I would consider safe, lol. It pulls the engine closer to the firewall which may translate into being off for the shifter too... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Here's the gap I'm left with at the front and rear rubber seals using the Naro mount installed as instructed. Like I said and others have suggested, if youre going to use it and want the engine to fit closer to how the stock 6 would fit, welt the mounts UP 3/4"-1" on the firewall from off the bottom ridge.

[RichPugh]

Not mounting the bar to the engine and then mounting the engine with transmission and bolting up the rear mounts is the OP's big mistake.
This step must be done every time...I don't give a flying fuchs who made the mount.

Lesson learned. Listening to the manufacturers installation rules/guidelines/instructions was my mistake. It simply DOES NOT position the engine in a good place (for my goals, at least)... so... I can do what you suggested, re-welding the mounts to the firewall in a higher, more ideal position but it doesnt fix the situation with the engine being about 1/2" too far forward closer to the firewall. The firewall kinda pitches backwards slightly so it might move it back marginally.

I will either:

1. Drop the engine, re-engineer the crossbar/cradle portion of the Naro mount to position the engine UP 3/4" and further rearward about 1/2"... Decent work but massive improvement.
2. Re-weld the firewall mounts up 3/4" UP and deal with the forward positioning... not ideal but better.
3. Leave it just as it is and just mod a shift rod bar to work... probably what I'll do in the interim.

[RichPugh]

Sounds like there are going to be mods either way. I'm going to mount my Naro Escape mount 3/4" higher with engine and trans installed to make sure installed height and angles are correct. This will be my first conversion on a 914 and like everyone else, will deal with whatever modifications need to be made. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[RichPugh]

Rich and Nick the only issue with using that linkage I moded is it was not modded for a naro mount

I test fit it to see how far off it was and made a few marks to denote the extreme limits of the shift rod position when shifting forward/rearward.

The 2 center-most marks on the bar denotes the area where the case touches the bar in neutral (if the bar were connected). The forward most and rear most marks denote the furthest place the case would contact the bar when shifting forward and backward.

Looks like your bar would be perfect if it were notched at about 60mm from the rubber boot lip, to drop down, go straight back until about 135mm then go back up and continue straight back.

Ignore the dripping CV axle flanges... LOL. I havent cleaned them, re-greased them and replaces the gaskets yet.

[RichPugh]

So... Something like this would work. Ignore the rudimentary drawing and orientation of the bar. Pretend its correctly oriented horizontally and this would drop down...

[RichPugh]

Rich and Nick the only issue with using that linkage I moded is it was not modded for a naro mount

Hey Ben, think you could make another bar like the one you made that I borrowed from Nick, but put a nice big notch in it to easily clear my -6 case? Pic posted above is the general parameters that would work.

[gandalf_025]

This is what they did to the 914-6 race cars
back in the day to clear a tab on the early aluminum
911 cases..

[mb911]

Rich and Nick the only issue with using that linkage I moded is it was not modded for a naro mount

Hey Ben, think you could make another bar like the one you made that I borrowed from Nick, but put a nice big notch in it to easily clear my -6 case? Pic posted above is the general parameters that would work.

Yes for sure.. Let me know.. Also note if you send it please send to my new address.

[mb911]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...39906&st=40

Please see the last page. A bit of info

[RichPugh]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...39906&st=40

Please see the last page. A bit of info

Thanks, man. I shot Bob an email. That thread showing the position differences between the Naro and PMS mount is quite enlightening. I wish I would have simply gotten the PMS mount... I was trying to support the Naro guys.

[RichPugh]

This is what they did to the 914-6 race cars
back in the day to clear a tab on the early aluminum
911 cases..

This "notch", placed close to the shift rod knuckle, would def clear the case. It wouldnt help with the other issue being the forward position of the engine and trans, but would def clear the case.

[Tdskip]

Great discussion.

Sounds like the Naro mount needs some additional thickness to either where it welds to the firewall or where it attaches to the engine.

Won't being 1/2 inch too far forward put a lot of stress on the transmission ears?

[RichPugh]

Great discussion.

Sounds like the Naro mount needs some additional thickness to either where it welds to the firewall or where it attaches to the engine.

Won't being 1/2 inch too far forward put a lot of stress on the transmission ears?

Thats another concern I have with where the lump is placed. It's definitely not sitting in the trans mounts squarely. I dont think the solution is adding "thickness" to the welded portions of the Naro mount... MAYBE modifying the mount position for the bar at the end of the welded mount "ears" could be a fix for them moving forward. In my case, I think the cradle section that mounts to the engine can/needs to be modified (basically reengineered) to correct it, lifting the engine upwards every bit of 3/4" and rearward about 1/2". The mounts on the firewall are positioned in a way that it currently allow room for the rear brake bias assembly to simply be moved upwards and still fit (tightly) under the engine tin shelf. If we were to reposition them further upwards, that would have to be completely relocated. The welded ears can stay... the cradle that mounts to the engine should be addressed, in my case... probably, LOL.

[mb911]

Great discussion.

Sounds like the Naro mount needs some additional thickness to either where it welds to the firewall or where it attaches to the engine.

Won't being 1/2 inch too far forward put a lot of stress on the transmission ears?

Thats another concern I have with where the lump is placed. It's definitely not sitting in the trans mounts squarely. I dont think the solution is adding "thickness" to the welded portions of the Naro mount... MAYBE modifying the mount position for the bar at the end of the welded mount "ears" could be a fix for them moving forward. In my case, I think the cradle section that mounts to the engine can/needs to be modified (basically reengineered) to correct it, lifting the engine upwards every bit of 3/4" and rearward about 1/2". The mounts on the firewall are positioned in a way that it currently allow room for the rear brake bias assembly to simply be moved upwards and still fit (tightly) under the engine tin shelf. If we were to reposition them further upwards, that would have to be completely relocated. The welded ears can stay... the cradle that mounts to the engine should be addressed, in my case... probably, LOL.

That is a great point and easily modded.

[RichPugh]

Here's just a couple pics showing exactly where the mount ears were welded into place as well as thee Naro instructions. they are exactly where Naro tells you to put them. They're exactly 4" from the bottom ridge of the firewall to the center of the cross bar. please excuse my rudimentary bottom level line made up of a file and a socket, lol.

[RichPugh]

In my case, I think the cradle section that mounts to the engine can/needs to be modified (basically reengineered) to correct it, lifting the engine upwards every bit of 3/4" and rearward about 1/2". The mounts on the firewall are positioned in a way that it currently allow room for the rear brake bias assembly to simply be moved upwards and still fit (tightly) under the engine tin shelf. If we were to reposition them further upwards, that would have to be completely relocated. The welded ears can stay... the cradle that mounts to the engine should be addressed, in my case... probably, LOL.

That is a great point and easily modded.

I was considering adding a new 2nd "bar" to the existing mount. One that would lift the engine up 7/8" and position it back 1/2". Something like this (excuse the remedial sketch). The blue just signifies welds all the way down the bar.

The other option would be to cut off the face mounting plate that connects to the engine case, cut a new one that lifts the engine up 7/8", wre-weld it into place and then space it off the case w/ 1/2" spacers/nuts/washers... something. Ughhh

[Tdskip]

Why couldn’t we “just” do this?

Add thickness to the mount and relocate the u-shaped piece that boots to the engine up and back? Excuse pre-second cup of coffee drawing but you get the idea.

[Tdskip]

One other way to go it is to add spacers on the mount (provided they are very strong), like the green shown here on the u-shaped piece.



This is how Lotus did it on the Elan which, granted, only has a 1.6L engine.

[RichPugh]

One other way to go it is to add spacers on the mount (provided they are very strong), like the green shown here on the u-shaped piece.

This is what I mentioned above too... just using spacers for the fore/aft adjustment and figuring our another way to "lift" the engine up. Maybe Bob @ Naro will help. We have (at least) 2 identical situations... 'Live Free & Drive' is having identical issues. Maybe Naro made a bad batch?