Just cut out on the Fwy, fuel issue Options

[johnpierre]

ok here is the update:

found the relay board - thanks for that - inspected the little fuses and they were ok. nothing looks burnt or damaged so i removed the two round fuses from the light motors and swaped out two from the relay board to see if that would solve the issue, it did not.

i have ordered three new round fuses from Pelican here in long beach, they will arrive tomorrow and i will install them and see what happens.

here is a curious thing however:

now i don't here the low whine of the fuel pump anymore and while i was trying to start the car i heard a pop and saw some smoke coming from the engine bay, i looked all over and could not see anything burnt, or still smoking. i could not smell anything buring so just assumed it came fromthe tail pipe area.

[mrholland2]

ok here is the update:

found the relay board - thanks for that - inspected the little fuses and they were ok. nothing looks burnt or damaged so i removed the two round fuses from the light motors and swaped out two from the relay board to see if that would solve the issue, it did not.

i have ordered three new round fuses from Pelican here in long beach, they will arrive tomorrow and i will install them and see what happens.

here is a curious thing however:

now i don't here the low whine of the fuel pump anymore and while i was trying to start the car i heard a pop and saw some smoke coming from the engine bay, i looked all over and could not see anything burnt, or still smoking. i could not smell anything buring so just assumed it came fromthe tail pipe area.

Are you sure everything is okay in the distributor/plugs/plug wires/coil arena?

[johnpierre]

so here is the update:

fuses arrived from pelican, i replaced all three of the ones on the relay board - nothing has changed - still sounds like it is not getting any fuel.

however i can again hear the low whining sound that i am assuming is the pump - also looked all over the coil distrubutor cap area and it all looks ok

here are some pics

what is the next thing to check or trouble shoot???

[johnpierre]

old relays

[johnpierre]

relay board with new relays installed

[johnpierre]

coil / distributor cap area - looks to be ok right ???

[type2man]

Remove the intake and pour fuel into the throttle body, if it starts, then you have a fuel delivery problem

[johnpierre]

Remove the intake and pour fuel into the throttle body, if it starts, then you have a fuel delivery problem

copy that...

[johnpierre]

Remove the intake and pour fuel into the throttle body, if it starts, then you have a fuel delivery problem

is the throttle body right under the air filter ?

[rjames]

while i was trying to start the car i heard a pop and saw some smoke coming from the engine bay, i looked all over and could not see anything burnt, or still smoking. i could not smell anything buring so just assumed it came from the tail pipe area.

This is concerning. I would check the all of the wiring in the engine bay very closely, making sure everything is connected correctly and there's no broken or exposed wires shorting something out.

Something else to check- take the distributor cap off and make sure the small braided ground wire inside is still attached. The car won't start if it's not attached or has a bad connection.
Once upon a time I wired my distributor up incorrectly and fried the ground wire. A bit of smoke and a toasted ground wire was the result, as was a car that wouldn't start anymore.

[johnpierre]

while i was trying to start the car i heard a pop and saw some smoke coming from the engine bay, i looked all over and could not see anything burnt, or still smoking. i could not smell anything buring so just assumed it came from the tail pipe area.

This is concerning. I would check the all of the wiring in the engine bay very closely, making sure everything is connected correctly and there's no broken or exposed wires shorting something out.

Something else to check- take the distributor cap off and make sure the small braided ground wire inside is still attached. The car won't start if it's not attached or has a bad connection.
Once upon a time I wired my distributor up incorrectly and fried the ground wire. A bit of smoke and a toasted ground wire was the result, as was a car that wouldn't start anymore.

ok will do

[euro911]

Did you get the issue figured out yet?

[rhodyguy]

Do you have spark? Easy way is hook up a timing light to a plug wire, any one of them will do. Then engage the starter. You're only looking for spark. Not timing. Yet.

[mankowski]

Intermittent loss of voltage to fuel pump could be a bad relay board trace. That alone doesn't appear to explain what's going on here, but it might be contributing.

[johnpierre]

bump...

[johnpierre]

ok everyone - it as been a few months - i just been so busy i have not been able to really dig in on this issue.

i still cant start the car, $@!#%&

i replace all the round relay's that were on the board in the back engine bay, as recommended and still no luck

any suggestions as to what to troubleshoot next ??

i have a few open days that i can dedicate to this issue - i need to get this car running - the weather is changing here in LA and this is my favorite time to drive it. plus it is currently parked on the street (covered) and due to covid culver city stopped writing tickets for street cleaing but that is about to end so i need to be able to park the car in the driveway on the street cleaning days.

i suppose i could tow it to a shop but it just seems to me that it is a simple fix which i can perform myself but i just don't know exactly what to look at or test.

914 community what is the next step????

-jp-

[GregAmy]

I'm still not clear if your pump is consistently running and you have fuel pressure? Have you tried jumping the fuel pump relay?

I'll reiterate that sudden stoppage on the highway is commonly related to electrical/wiring issues with the relay plate, its connectors, and terminals.

[euro911]

JP, there's also a couple of fuses next to each other on the relay board in the engine bay.

The 25 amp fuse (in the socket towards the rear of the car) is the main power fuse for the board - it protects the fuel pump and the heater blower fan.

The 8 amp fuse is only for a rear window defogger (if vehicle is so equipped).





If not already posted in this thread, go over Jeff Bowlsby's checklist: https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_FI_FPChecklist2.pdf

[euro911]

[JamesM]

I'm still not clear if your pump is consistently running and you have fuel pressure? Have you tried jumping the fuel pump relay?

I'll reiterate that sudden stoppage on the highway is commonly related to electrical/wiring issues with the relay plate, its connectors, and terminals.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) on all counts.

Rather than guessing and replacing random parts in the hopes that the problem goes away though you need to actually diagnose what isnt working and then address that system.

Absolutely would look at the fuel system. As previously stated issues with the relay/relay board are super common (I have had them with every 914 I have ever owned and that is a pretty large number at this point) however because its usually easier to check for spark do that first just to rule it out.

So
Step 1: hook up a timing light, crank the engine. Is it lighting up?
No = Figure out why you dont have spark.
Yes = Look at the fuel system next.


Step 2: Do you have fuel pressure? Not hearing the pump at all is usually a give away that you dont, but hearing the pump run is not always an indicator that you do.
Get a fuel pressure gauge and throw it on the fuel rail!

No pressure + pump not running = something wrong with the pump or the electrical circuit/relay/relay board.

No pressure + pump running = bad pump or obstruction in the fuel line

Proper 29 PSI at the fuel rail when key is cycled/cranking = something other than the fuel pump system itself, start looking at d-jet Head temp sensor, MPS, etc (this is a d-jet car right?)

Whatever you do stop guessing though. Its pretty easy to test what is and is not actually working on these cars. Once you have isolated where the failure is you can stop randomly replacing parts.