Converting 1.8 to 2.0, need some help... Options

[Jakester]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 11 2005, 11:37 AM)

you can have the 1.8 bored to 96's, then you'd have a 1911...no need for new crank or rods...nice engine, had an L-Jet one and then converted it to megasquirt

Mike,

Can you comment on approx HP with this motor. What about the "butt dyno"? Significant improvement over 1.8 L-Jet?

You changed to MegaSquirt for fun, not because you had to, right? How is it that the L-Jet can be used on a larger cylinder with no changes?

[dlo914]

have i said "i love this club" lately? well i do at the moment! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rocking nana.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sheeplove.gif)

[tat2dphreak]

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 03:03 PM)

at the moment ive got a line on a set of 2L pistons for free, 2L crank n rods for $150, machine work on the heads and rehone the cylinders.....but right now my budget is prolly around $500

depends on the shop, but $500 for a simple valve job is about what I saw it was going to cost, and thats without opening up the valves at all...

check RIMCO's website, or call Headflow masters...


don't forget to budget for Rings, Seals, Gaskets, Bearings, the little things always add up...

possibly a new cam(?) and lifters... I dunno how re-usable these are once you split the case...

like Mueller said, you need pistons with the RIGHT wristpin location for the 1.8 crank..

[dlo914]

what would happen if i dont go w/ larger valves?

[tat2dphreak]

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 03:15 PM)

what would happen if i dont go w/ larger valves?

not as much hp...

one more reason to look for 2.0 heads...

[dlo914]

at this moment i just wanna do some minimal upgrades and get the car back up and running. AND have a reliable car for the year...

[Mueller]

QUOTE (Jakester @ Jul 11 2005, 01:12 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 11 2005, 11:37 AM) you can have the 1.8 bored to 96's, then you'd have a 1911...no need for new crank or rods...nice engine, had an L-Jet one and then converted it to megasquirt Mike, Can you comment on approx HP with this motor. What about the "butt dyno"? Significant improvement over 1.8 L-Jet? You changed to MegaSquirt for fun, not because you had to, right? How is it that the L-Jet can be used on a larger cylinder with no changes?

I bought the motor already as a 1911 so no "before" comparisons....I did use that car in a drivers ed course and both of my instructors thought it was a warmed up 2.0 due to how well the motor ran, I suspect not stock compression and just built correctly.

Yep, Megasquirt was done for "sh!t's n giggles"....

I'm guessing that the design parameters of the L-Jet on the 1.8 has enough range to compensate for the larger motor mostly due to it needing the range for different altitudes and air temps. At what displacement will the L-Jet not be able to work, I have no idea.

[tat2dphreak]

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 03:22 PM)

at this moment i just wanna do some minimal upgrades and get the car back up and running. AND have a reliable car for the year...

then be sure and do the things you don't want to do again...

if you are splitting the case to put in a new crank, then get a new cam and lifters... you don't want to split it again for a while if you can help it...

top end stuff is easier later... if you can get good used 2.0 pistons, use those to save some coin. and then upgrade to the 96s later down the line.

but with your budget, if the crank and cam are currently good, I would really consider the 1911 for now... and look for a seperate engine to rebuild later... as money allows...

I have a 1.8 that I plan on rebuilding eventually... I'll do it with a Raby Kit(2270) though, no other way, for me.

I added up the $$ for me to turn the 1.8 I have to a GOOD 2.0(+), and I bought a 2056 that someone else had already rebuilt... the economics just were't there...

[Jakester]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 11 2005, 12:24 PM)

I suspect not stock compression and just built correctly.

"Not stock compression" would be acheived by shaving down the heads (to reduce the combustion chamber volume) to just before the point where valve/piston clearance would be an issue, am I right?

Do you have any experience with this on the type IV's? Other than fuel octane, are there any issues with increasing compression in this way (i.e. head stresses, ring degradation, etc.)?

[Jakester]

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 11 2005, 12:30 PM)

I added up the $$ for me to turn the 1.8 I have to a GOOD 2.0(+), and I bought a 2056 that someone else had already rebuilt... the economics just were't there...

Yes, but what about the economics of just the 1911 route? Are they there? To turn a 1.8 into a 1911, all it takes is bore the cylinders, 96 mm pistons and a top-end refresh (not needed, but prudent), right?

Maybe $800 (just a guess) for what gain in HP? Anyone... Bueller (not Mueller - Bueller)?

Just take a look at my sig to see why I'm interested in this thread... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sawzall-smiley.gif)

[tat2dphreak]

if the crank and cam are currently good(basically if the engine is running now), then yes, a 1911 is not that much $$... I'd guess at $800-1000... $300-400 for 96mm pistons/rings; 500 for a head freshening(nothing fancy) and another $100 for machining the stock cylinders...

[anthony]

Does anyone know if L-Jet can handle non-stock, hotter or split duration, cams?

[tat2dphreak]

QUOTE (anthony @ Jul 11 2005, 04:02 PM)

Does anyone know if L-Jet can handle non-stock, hotter or split duration, cams?

I don't KNOW, but I've been told, that Ljet is probably the best FI for a hotter cam and bigger engine... I think 2.0 Djet tops out on a 2056 with a 'similar to stock' FI cam.

I think I even asked that question here... try a search...

[dlo914]

after some thorough thinking...im just gonna have the heads rebuilt and find a set of 1.8L pistons. thanks for the input though gang......so does anyone have a set of good 1.8 pistons?

[Bleyseng]

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 11 2005, 02:09 PM)

QUOTE (anthony @ Jul 11 2005, 04:02 PM) Does anyone know if L-Jet can handle non-stock, hotter or split duration, cams? I don't KNOW, but I've been told, that Ljet is probably the best FI for a hotter cam and bigger engine... I think 2.0 Djet tops out on a 2056 with a 'similar to stock' FI cam. I think I even asked that question here... try a search...

Djet doesn't like too much overlap so that kills the hot cam ideas right there. L jet still likes a similar to stock cam but you can change it some.

1.8 heads have more meat on them if you are going to deck them for more compression. They have 55cc chambers so take that into consideration for the compression ratio.
2.0l heads have a 62cc chambers and 1.7 are what 50cc.

Dlo, you could just run the 2.0l stuff with your 1.8 heads without any problems.

[dlo914]

after some discussion it's narrowing down to a complete head rebuild, and upgrade to Keith Black 96mm pistons. As for the lower-end im debating weather to replace the bearings or not...

[tat2dphreak]

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 12 2005, 09:59 AM)

after some discussion it's narrowing down to a complete head rebuild, and upgrade to Keith Black 96mm pistons. As for the lower-end im debating weather to replace the bearings or not...

if the engine's running, and not leaking, I wouldn't split the case until you are ready to shell out the real cheese and replace the cam and crank... if you ARE going to split the case, then DEFINATELY get new bearings!

[dlo914]

the last the this car ran it had a horrible knocking noise, my main mechanic diagnosed it as rod knock. But a week or two ago mattr and i removed the heads to discover one of the valves on the passenger side had fallen out of its seat and slapped the piston leaving an indention; half the size of a valve. So i assume the bottom end doesnt have any problems. So as for this set up im going for, the 1911 what kind of power range am i looking at? Anything better than stock sounds good to me (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[Jake Raby]

Wow guys- You even have me confused!

Okay...
You can stick with the stock 1.7/1.8 rods and crank and go to my 96mm arrangement to yield about 90 BHP with the stock 1.8 FI with the stock cam.

If you tear into it you ALWAYS CHANGE THE BEARINGS and then you SHOULD make a cam change to get rid of the shitty, heat generating, efficiency killing pig that the factory installed. Replace with a RAT 9550 for best results with 96s and stock FI, either 1.8 or 2.0.

If you go up to the 71mm crank and rod set from the 2.0 and couple that with my 96s you will yield 2056ccs and with the cam change you will be right at 110 BHP with 120 for torque.

As for the heads- DO NOT SKIMP!!!!!!!!!!! Have those heads 100% rebuilt with new valves, single H/D springs and chromoly retainers (By a TIV specialist) or don't even put it back together. I don't care if you have to save money for 6 more months- do it right, do it thoroughly or don't do it at all.....

I can help make this amuch easier process for you, especially with my engine rebuild video http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/p...09&cat=0&page=1
Available at the link.....

[dlo914]

now if only everyone was this clear about my situation, THANKS JAKE! now i can finally cool my nuts (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wavey.gif)