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Flywheel question, '74 2.0

zymurgist	Jul 12 2005, 10:36 AM Post #1
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	OK, when I got the flywheel out of Babydoll, I found that the inside surface where the O-ring seats was all grungy and the O-ring was trashed. I cleaned the area pretty good, especially in and around the groove where the O-ring seats. The flat surface inside this area is very rough, and I was wondering whether this would be a problem. I posted pictures in the Saving Babydoll thread. Is this anything that I should be worried about? I have another flywheel, but this one is in better shape (the other one needs resurfacing, the dowel pins are bent, and it needs a new pilot bearing).

tat2dphreak	Jul 12 2005, 10:41 AM Post #2
stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region	you should replace the pilot, and resurface any flywheel that has some bluing on it... if it's wihtin spec... you can get dowels from HOH, I just got some from them... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

zymurgist	Jul 12 2005, 10:46 AM Post #3
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	I may be able to post pictures of the business end of the flywheel tonight. Gotta get out to the garage with my camera. If I remember correctly, this flywheel looks as though it was resurfaced in the not-too-distant past. The surface where the clutch disc rides (I'll call it the front, even though we all know it faces the rear of the car (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) ) looks a hell of a lot better than the area in the pictures, though... I'm just wondering whether that rough area on the back side (the side facing the engine) is anything to worry about.

tat2dphreak

Jul 12 2005, 12:44 PM

Post #4

stoya, stoya, stoya

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QUOTE (zymurgist @ Jul 12 2005, 11:46 AM)

I may be able to post pictures of the business end of the flywheel tonight. Gotta get out to the garage with my camera.

If I remember correctly, this flywheel looks as though it was resurfaced in the not-too-distant past. The surface where the clutch disc rides (I'll call it the front, even though we all know it faces the rear of the car (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) ) looks a hell of a lot better than the area in the pictures, though... I'm just wondering whether that rough area on the back side (the side facing the engine) is anything to worry about.

if it mates with the seal area smooth, you should be fine... go with the one with the best face for the clutch

zymurgist	Jul 12 2005, 01:18 PM Post #5
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	Wayne, Which seal area are you talking about? The main seal, or the O-ring? The main seal area should be just fine (I'm going to replace the main seal just to be sure). The O-ring should also go into its groove just fine... it's just that the surface that rides against the end of the crankshaft that's munged up. That is to say, the surface that rides against the crankshaft isn't completely flat. I am, after all, a newbie when it comes to doing actual repair work on air cooled engines. How about asking a different question: what is the function of the O-ring that goes on the inside of the flywheel where it mates with the crankshaft?

tat2dphreak

Jul 12 2005, 01:25 PM

Post #6

stoya, stoya, stoya

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I was referring to the O-ring groove...

now this:

QUOTE

That is to say, the surface that rides against the crankshaft isn't completely flat.

I dont know... I'd have to look at it, but it doesn't sound RIGHT to me...

someone else that's done this more will probably know right off the bat though...

zymurgist	Jul 12 2005, 01:30 PM Post #7
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	That's what I was trying to convey with the pictures. The other flywheel looks better in that aspect, but in all the other things, it requires work. Any 2.0 gurus tuned in?

tat2dphreak	Jul 12 2005, 01:36 PM Post #8
stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region	Duh... I didn't look at the pics... sorry (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) it doesn't look "right" almost like someone tried to WELD it! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) either way, it got HOT... a machine shop could probably fix it though...

zymurgist	Jul 13 2005, 05:13 AM Post #9
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	I went out and looked at it last night... the surface inside the flywheel appears to be flat enough to fit, since the surface imperfections are all valleys, no peaks. I'm just a little bit overzealous when it comes to oil leaks, because I don't want to do this job again (and it took forever to fix the oil leaks on the Corvette when the new engine went in). The O-ring groove looks good. When I install the flywheel, should I fit the O-ring dry, with grease, black silicone, or what?

bd1308	Jul 13 2005, 06:22 AM Post #10
Sir Post-a-lot Group: Members Posts: 8,020 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Louisville,KY Member No.: 3,501	perhaps you need the Jake Raby DVD....no seriously I believe he recommends lubing with oil after installation (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) take some light sandpaper to the flywheel anyway.....since nobody wants to do it over.

zymurgist	Jul 13 2005, 08:25 AM Post #11
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	Sandpaper... yeah, that's the ticket... I can still see the cross-hatches on the flywheel from its last resurfacing, but there are a few discolorations. I was also planning on using green Brakleen on the surface after mounting on the engine but before installing the clutch disc. (Both on the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces.) No fingerprints, no Gunk residue, no nothing. Which DVD would that be? This one? Bug Me Video Type 4 Engine Rebuild Volume 8 (DVD) #21010

Jake Raby	Jul 13 2005, 08:32 AM Post #12
Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States	Thats the one! Everyone needs it!!! I just went over (last week) some other aspects of sealing the flywheel area correctly. You might want to search for that one as I threw a few tricks in.

zymurgist	Jul 13 2005, 08:58 AM Post #13
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	Thanks, Jake. This thread seems to be the right one. I'm also planning on using JB Weld on the oil galley plugs. I'm not comfortable with tapping them while the engine is assembled... and I believe that Babydoll's leak came from the flywheel seal area anyway because that's where most of the crud was.

zymurgist	Jul 15 2005, 12:22 PM Post #14
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon_bump.gif) OK, more n00b questions... 1. The flywheel had 5 large hex head bolts and one funny looking washer with 5 holes in it. Are these the correct bolts for the flywheel? Do I need to replace the washer? (Probably should have asked that one before I placed the last PP order.) 2. Going to check end play... I ASSuME that a dial indicator with magnetic base, like what Summit sells, is the proper tool for this? There were 2 shims but I've read that there should be 3. 3. The pressure plate was bolted in place with hex head bolts. However, it was not quite possible to get a socket on them. Are these supposed to be hex head bolts, or are they supposed to be the kind of bolt with round heads that take hex drivers? Probably won't get to the flywheel etc. this weekend, especially if I need to order more parts. But I can put the new (correctly sized) rubber fuel line in, having verified that all 4 injectors are functional.

tat2dphreak

Jul 15 2005, 01:32 PM

Post #15

stoya, stoya, stoya

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QUOTE (zymurgist @ Jul 15 2005, 01:22 PM)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon_bump.gif)

OK, more n00b questions...

1. The flywheel had 5 large hex head bolts and one funny looking washer with 5 holes in it. Are these the correct bolts for the flywheel? Do I need to replace the washer? (Probably should have asked that one before I placed the last PP order.)

2. Going to check end play... I ASSuME that a dial indicator with magnetic base, like what Summit sells, is the proper tool for this? There were 2 shims but I've read that there should be 3.

3. The pressure plate was bolted in place with hex head bolts. However, it was not quite possible to get a socket on them. Are these supposed to be hex head bolts, or are they supposed to be the kind of bolt with round heads that take hex drivers?

Probably won't get to the flywheel etc. this weekend, especially if I need to order more parts. But I can put the new (correctly sized) rubber fuel line in, having verified that all 4 injectors are functional.

1)sounds like the right bolts, get new ones, AND a new washer... the bolts can't handle the torque twice...

2) should be 3 shims, I got my dial indicator and magnetic base at Harbor freight, about $20

3) hex head bolts are right here too... you SHOULD be able to get the socket on them though... maybe one didn't have the washer?!
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

I just put my clutch and pressure plate back on, LMK if you need a picture...

zymurgist	Jul 16 2005, 06:00 PM Post #16
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	Yes, I would appreciate a picture. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) In other news, I found new bolts for the pressure plate locally. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif) I think they are short M8's although I'm not sure. I took one of the old bolts with me so I found exact replacements. I bought 6 new bolts and 6 new lock washers. No such luck with the flywheel bolts, though... those are flange lock bolts with serrations under the head. They had flange bolts, but they didn't have serrations, so I passed on them. Time to put together another PP order, if only I can think of everything I need before ordering. Got one order that's coming right now, and I still need flywheel bolts and shims (gonna call PP to make sure they carry that 'cause it's not in the catalog). And don't even ask about the M12 x 1.50 pitch lock bolts for my tail dragger shock mounts... I went to 6 hardware and auto parts stores, and everybody in the area stocks both M12 x 1.25 and M12 x 1.75. I never knew that there could be three different thread pitches, being used to the SAE coarse and SAE fine choices typically available for US automotive applications. I'm pretty fussy when it comes to putting cars back together right. Can't stand looking at the shortcuts taken by PO's sometimes.

tat2dphreak	Jul 16 2005, 06:30 PM Post #17
stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region	cool, I'll take a pic when I got work on the car in the morning... I actually think I HAVE an extra crush washer and flywheel bolt set... I bought them when I thought I would be pulling the flywheel off to set the free-end play with shims, and didn't need to, the shims were already in... if you want them, lmk

zymurgist	Jul 16 2005, 06:44 PM Post #18
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	Wayne, I jsut may take you up on that. AFAIK the only parts I need to put Babydoll together (apart from the fuel line stuff) are flywheel bolts, crush washer, and shims. Can't understand why I only have 2 shims... I thought one of them might have been stuck to the engine case, but that doesn't seem to be there.

tat2dphreak	Jul 16 2005, 07:14 PM Post #19
stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region	cool, let me know, I can get them in the mail... lemme make sure I have them tommorrow... the number of the shims shall be 3, not 2 nor 4, though the number shall precede 4 and follow 2, the number shall be 3, 5 is right out, as is 1, 3 shall be the number and the number shall be 3... sorry, dunno what happened there... somone wo built the engine last probably used 2 thicker shims... it probably doesn't REALLY matter... that's just the way the old krauts said to do it... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) but you should use new shims anyway. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

zymurgist	Jul 17 2005, 06:42 AM Post #20
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None	Five is Right Out! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Gotta get a dial gauge next. Summit has one with a magnetic base for $29.95. Don't think any of my friends have one. Oh well, it's only money.

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