OK, when I got the flywheel out of Babydoll, I found that the inside surface where the O-ring seats was all grungy and the O-ring was trashed. I cleaned the area pretty good, especially in and around the groove where the O-ring seats. The flat surface inside this area is very rough, and I was wondering whether this would be a problem.

I posted pictures in the Saving Babydoll thread.

Is this anything that I should be worried about? I have another flywheel, but this one is in better shape (the other one needs resurfacing, the dowel pins are bent, and it needs a new pilot bearing).

you should replace the pilot, and resurface any flywheel that has some bluing on it... if it's wihtin spec...

you can get dowels from HOH, I just got some from them...

I may be able to post pictures of the business end of the flywheel tonight. Gotta get out to the garage with my camera.

If I remember correctly, this flywheel looks as though it was resurfaced in the not-too-distant past. The surface where the clutch disc rides (I'll call it the front, even though we all know it faces the rear of the car ) looks a hell of a lot better than the area in the pictures, though... I'm just wondering whether that rough area on the back side (the side facing the engine) is anything to worry about.

QUOTE (zymurgist @ Jul 12 2005, 11:46 AM)

I may be able to post pictures of the business end of the flywheel tonight. Gotta get out to the garage with my camera. If I remember correctly, this flywheel looks as though it was resurfaced in the not-too-distant past. The surface where the clutch disc rides (I'll call it the front, even though we all know it faces the rear of the car ) looks a hell of a lot better than the area in the pictures, though... I'm just wondering whether that rough area on the back side (the side facing the engine) is anything to worry about.

if it mates with the seal area smooth, you should be fine... go with the one with the best face for the clutch

Wayne,

Which seal area are you talking about? The main seal, or the O-ring? The main seal area should be just fine (I'm going to replace the main seal just to be sure). The O-ring should also go into its groove just fine... it's just that the surface that rides against the end of the crankshaft that's munged up. That is to say, the surface that rides against the crankshaft isn't completely flat.

I am, after all, a newbie when it comes to doing actual repair work on air cooled engines. How about asking a different question: what is the function of the O-ring that goes on the inside of the flywheel where it mates with the crankshaft?

I was referring to the O-ring groove...

now this:

QUOTE

That is to say, the surface that rides against the crankshaft isn't completely flat.

I dont know... I'd have to look at it, but it doesn't sound RIGHT to me...

someone else that's done this more will probably know right off the bat though...

That's what I was trying to convey with the pictures. The other flywheel looks better in that aspect, but in all the other things, it requires work.

Any 2.0 gurus tuned in?

Duh... I didn't look at the pics... sorry it doesn't look "right" almost like someone tried to WELD it!


either way, it got HOT...

a machine shop could probably fix it though...

I went out and looked at it last night... the surface inside the flywheel appears to be flat enough to fit, since the surface imperfections are all valleys, no peaks.

I'm just a little bit overzealous when it comes to oil leaks, because I don't want to do this job again (and it took forever to fix the oil leaks on the Corvette when the new engine went in).

The O-ring groove looks good. When I install the flywheel, should I fit the O-ring dry, with grease, black silicone, or what?

perhaps you need the Jake Raby DVD....no seriously I believe he recommends lubing with oil after installation

take some light sandpaper to the flywheel anyway.....since nobody wants to do it over.

Sandpaper... yeah, that's the ticket... I can still see the cross-hatches on the flywheel from its last resurfacing, but there are a few discolorations. I was also planning on using green Brakleen on the surface after mounting on the engine but before installing the clutch disc. (Both on the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces.) No fingerprints, no Gunk residue, no nothing.

Which DVD would that be? This one?
Bug Me Video Type 4 Engine Rebuild Volume 8 (DVD) #21010

Thats the one!

Everyone needs it!!!

I just went over (last week) some other aspects of sealing the flywheel area correctly. You might want to search for that one as I threw a few tricks in.

Thanks, Jake. This thread seems to be the right one.

I'm also planning on using JB Weld on the oil galley plugs. I'm not comfortable with tapping them while the engine is assembled... and I believe that Babydoll's leak came from the flywheel seal area anyway because that's where most of the crud was.

OK, more n00b questions...

1. The flywheel had 5 large hex head bolts and one funny looking washer with 5 holes in it. Are these the correct bolts for the flywheel? Do I need to replace the washer? (Probably should have asked that one before I placed the last PP order.)

2. Going to check end play... I ASSuME that a dial indicator with magnetic base, like what Summit sells, is the proper tool for this? There were 2 shims but I've read that there should be 3.

3. The pressure plate was bolted in place with hex head bolts. However, it was not quite possible to get a socket on them. Are these supposed to be hex head bolts, or are they supposed to be the kind of bolt with round heads that take hex drivers?

Probably won't get to the flywheel etc. this weekend, especially if I need to order more parts. But I can put the new (correctly sized) rubber fuel line in, having verified that all 4 injectors are functional.

QUOTE (zymurgist @ Jul 15 2005, 01:22 PM)

OK, more n00b questions... 1. The flywheel had 5 large hex head bolts and one funny looking washer with 5 holes in it. Are these the correct bolts for the flywheel? Do I need to replace the washer? (Probably should have asked that one before I placed the last PP order.) 2. Going to check end play... I ASSuME that a dial indicator with magnetic base, like what Summit sells, is the proper tool for this? There were 2 shims but I've read that there should be 3. 3. The pressure plate was bolted in place with hex head bolts. However, it was not quite possible to get a socket on them. Are these supposed to be hex head bolts, or are they supposed to be the kind of bolt with round heads that take hex drivers? Probably won't get to the flywheel etc. this weekend, especially if I need to order more parts. But I can put the new (correctly sized) rubber fuel line in, having verified that all 4 injectors are functional.

1)sounds like the right bolts, get new ones, AND a new washer... the bolts can't handle the torque twice...

2) should be 3 shims, I got my dial indicator and magnetic base at Harbor freight, about $20

3) hex head bolts are right here too... you SHOULD be able to get the socket on them though... maybe one didn't have the washer?!


I just put my clutch and pressure plate back on, LMK if you need a picture...

Yes, I would appreciate a picture.

In other news, I found new bolts for the pressure plate locally. I think they are short M8's although I'm not sure. I took one of the old bolts with me so I found exact replacements. I bought 6 new bolts and 6 new lock washers.

No such luck with the flywheel bolts, though... those are flange lock bolts with serrations under the head. They had flange bolts, but they didn't have serrations, so I passed on them. Time to put together another PP order, if only I can think of everything I need before ordering. Got one order that's coming right now, and I still need flywheel bolts and shims (gonna call PP to make sure they carry that 'cause it's not in the catalog).

And don't even ask about the M12 x 1.50 pitch lock bolts for my tail dragger shock mounts... I went to 6 hardware and auto parts stores, and everybody in the area stocks both M12 x 1.25 and M12 x 1.75. I never knew that there could be three different thread pitches, being used to the SAE coarse and SAE fine choices typically available for US automotive applications.

I'm pretty fussy when it comes to putting cars back together right. Can't stand looking at the shortcuts taken by PO's sometimes.

cool, I'll take a pic when I got work on the car in the morning...


I actually think I HAVE an extra crush washer and flywheel bolt set... I bought them when I thought I would be pulling the flywheel off to set the free-end play with shims, and didn't need to, the shims were already in...


if you want them, lmk

Wayne,

I jsut may take you up on that. AFAIK the only parts I need to put Babydoll together (apart from the fuel line stuff) are flywheel bolts, crush washer, and shims. Can't understand why I only have 2 shims... I thought one of them might have been stuck to the engine case, but that doesn't seem to be there.

cool, let me know, I can get them in the mail... lemme make sure I have them tommorrow...

the number of the shims shall be 3, not 2 nor 4, though the number shall precede 4 and follow 2, the number shall be 3, 5 is right out, as is 1, 3 shall be the number and the number shall be 3...

sorry, dunno what happened there...

somone wo built the engine last probably used 2 thicker shims... it probably doesn't REALLY matter... that's just the way the old krauts said to do it... but you should use new shims anyway.

Five is Right Out!

Gotta get a dial gauge next. Summit has one with a magnetic base for $29.95. Don't think any of my friends have one. Oh well, it's only money.

if there's a harbor freight near you, that will save you $10 and the shipping... I got mine there for $20 there...

Cool! There's one in Laurel, Md., about 5 miles from where I work. I go there at lunch sometimes.

just realize that the DAPO that put babydolls engine together was DOUG, not me

i got flywheel shims from busdepot (.com) located in PA. maybe that could save some shipping time.....

i read or recall somewhere that the pressure plate bolts are special and on the PP site listed as NLA. don't recall what's so special.....

sounds like you're making good progress and learning alot. wonder if you'll be trading that 'vette for a teener

let me know if you are in the DC area, i have a workshop manual on CD and a PET6 (parts catalog) on CD that i can ..... (almost said copy)...... lend you.

preesure plate bolts are special? they don't look it... and I was missing one and used a regular bolt.


I do have the crush washer and an extra set of (5) flywheel bolts, if you want them, send me a PM.

Hey Jim,

Maybe you can lend the CD to Caroline and she'll pass it along next time she comes up for a wrenching session. I'd really like to have the clutch, flywheel, etc. all set up before she gets here the next time... I figure I'll need some help putting the fuel lines together, and of course putting the engine/tranny back in.

Gotta make both of my other cars run now... we won't be able to get the engine back in until I can get the 911 out of the left bay, which is where Babydoll is. Unfortunately I spent most of the day installing a new radiator in the Neon. Gonna drive that car until the wheels fall off so I can afford my toys.

As for trading the Vette for a 914, that ain't gonna happen. I spent 3 years building that car to be exactly the way I want it. I'd sooner trade my left.. umm, my car in the left bay, yeah, that's it. Gotta get some rides in some modified 914's to decide what I want. I'm not in a hurry.

As for pressure plate bolts, I was asking if they were special because I didn't have a lot of space to get a socket on the hex head. I think the round head bolts that are tightened with Allen type wrenches would be a logical application. They are property class 12.9, so I don't think they would break. (Currently have 6 10.9 hex head bolts... one of the 6 that I pulled off was an 8.8.)

I got the dial indicator and stand from Harbor Freight in Laurel yesterday. $23 complete. I looked at the tubing benders, but I'm going to look at what Sears is selling before I buy anything. The benders they had at Harbor Freight looked to be on the cheap side (after all, it is Harbor Freight) but they only cost $7. If Sears is selling essentially the same thing for $20, it's back to HF I go.

yep...

I actually got a decent one (for what I do) from Pep boys... does several sizes and works gud for brake lines...

The Sears bender at $20 looks exactly like the Harbor Freight bender for $7. Guess where I'm going...

smart man... I get a ton of tools from there... decent quality for the money, and if I lose them, no biggie.

Well, two different VW mechanics have advised me not to use the flywheel that was in the car. It looks like it may have come loose at some point, which is where the damage inside the flywheel and on the end of the crankshaft came from.

I'm going to get the spare flywheel resurfaced and use it. Also cleaned up the chamfer on the crankshaft so there are no sharp edges to chew up the O-ring. End play is .042 with no shims installed, .007 with the 3 shims installed. Yes, there were really 3, 2 of them were just stuck together really good.

Yes, I wouldn't use that flywheel as it has come loose and banged around.

Have the other one properly machined and then install in, checking the endplay.

Funny thing... I checked the endplay again last night (re-installed the flywheel twice, once without shims, once with 3 shims) and got .042 without shims (again) but this time I got .009 with the 3 shims. The only difference was that the time I got the .007 measurement, I was working in my garage at close to 100 degrees, and last night it was in the high 70's in the garage. Very peculiar.

The last VW mechanic I spoke to advised me that if I have the surface where the clutch disc rides machined, I should get the surface where the pressure plate mounts machined by the same amount. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a machine shop. I hope to minimize the amount of machining so I don't have to grind down the heads of the flywheel mounting bolts.

Oh, this is amusing... I removed the dowel pins from both flywheels, and on the flywheel that was banged around, the dowel pin looked like it was the broken off end of a drill bit. I could even see the markings on it. I'm gonna have an interesting conversation with the McGyver who built the engine the next time I see him...

dave hunt detailed the installation of the flywheel and ALL the new components required in his 2nd engine build thread.

k

QUOTE (zymurgist @ Aug 16 2005, 04:34 AM)

The last VW mechanic I spoke to advised me that if I have the surface where the clutch disc rides machined, I should get the surface where the pressure plate mounts machined by the same amount.

yes, he is right as both surfaces should be machined. In the manual there is a pic showing the max measurement to be machined. Also you must add the amount taken off to the pivot ball of the clutch arm by adding washer shims.