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> Machine shop time, How many hours to prep case, crank, bearings?
mepstein
post Sep 18 2020, 11:24 AM
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If I ever did a big four, I would scrimp and save to buy one of Jake’s engines. The engine is costly. The decades of knowledge and experience is priceless.
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Jake Raby
post Sep 18 2020, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 18 2020, 09:24 AM) *

If I ever did a big four, I would scrimp and save to buy one of Jake’s engines. The engine is costly. The decades of knowledge and experience is priceless.


Thanks.. I took a step back in time, and I'm doing these engines myself again. Just like I did when I started the place.
All my employees are working in the main facility, on modern Porsche engines.. Here, the newest thing I want to deal with is a 993, and even that is too new for me.
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Mark Henry
post Sep 18 2020, 03:11 PM
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Not sure what to say....if it's just the bottom end 30 hours seems high, send the case to a shop set up for this work (below) and the crank and rods to a crank grinder/machine shop.

http://www.europeanmotorworks.com/vw/engin...se-service.html

...and since Jake posted some /6 porn here's my contribution, 3.0 twin plug that I've been driving all summer in my '74 conversion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I bet with all the work from engine build plus all the work to convert it into a six with 5-bolt, tuning, sorting, tank, etc I'm way over 500 hours, maybe even close to 1000. Still not done this winter I want to do a front cooler and inner longs.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1497554034_thumb.jpg)
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Jake Raby
post Sep 18 2020, 06:56 PM
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Made some progress today.. 2563cc for a 912E.


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thelogo
post Sep 18 2020, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 05:56 PM) *

Made some progress today.. 2563cc for a 912E.


To .m.h and jake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)


Mad respect for not pumping water (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
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mepstein
post Sep 18 2020, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 08:56 PM) *

Made some progress today.. 2563cc for a 912E.

Jake - would you share more pics of that engine room? It looks clean and functional.
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Jake Raby
post Sep 18 2020, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 18 2020, 05:06 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 08:56 PM) *

Made some progress today.. 2563cc for a 912E.

Jake - would you share more pics of that engine room? It looks clean and functional.


I post Facebook Live videos of the clean room often. I just shared one this morning, you can check it out on the Raby's Aircooled Technology FB page, as a shared video.

I built this room when I moved into the new Raby Engine Development R&D facility 6 years ago. I originally didn't plan to build any customer's engines here; only do development work, and use the facility to host my Porsche engine classes. I just moved the original RAT engine dyno here a couple months ago, which completed the transition of all the Aircooled stuff into my own world.

I've had several clean rooms over the years, this one is the culmination of all those before it. I work in this one almost everyday, and still love it after 6 years.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Sep 18 2020, 07:39 PM
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mepstein
post Sep 18 2020, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 09:38 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 18 2020, 05:06 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 08:56 PM) *

Made some progress today.. 2563cc for a 912E.

Jake - would you share more pics of that engine room? It looks clean and functional.


I post Facebook Live videos of the clean room often. I just shared one this morning, you can check it out on the Raby's Aircooled Technology FB page, as a shared video.

I built this room when I moved into the new Raby Engine Development R&D facility 6 years ago. I originally didn't plan to build any customer's engines here; only do development work, and use the facility to host my Porsche engine classes. I just moved the original RAT engine dyno here a couple months ago, which completed the transition of all the Aircooled stuff into my own world.

I've had several clean rooms over the years, this one is the culmination of all those before it. I work in this one almost everyday, and still love it after 6 years.

I'll check out facebook. Thanks!
I'm rehabbing my workshop and while I don't need pro grade metal cabinetry, I like the clean look of everything in drawers and cabinets. No pegboard or open shelving for me.
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Jake Raby
post Sep 18 2020, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 18 2020, 07:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 09:38 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 18 2020, 05:06 PM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 08:56 PM) *

Made some progress today.. 2563cc for a 912E.

Jake - would you share more pics of that engine room? It looks clean and functional.


I post Facebook Live videos of the clean room often. I just shared one this morning, you can check it out on the Raby's Aircooled Technology FB page, as a shared video.

I built this room when I moved into the new Raby Engine Development R&D facility 6 years ago. I originally didn't plan to build any customer's engines here; only do development work, and use the facility to host my Porsche engine classes. I just moved the original RAT engine dyno here a couple months ago, which completed the transition of all the Aircooled stuff into my own world.

I've had several clean rooms over the years, this one is the culmination of all those before it. I work in this one almost everyday, and still love it after 6 years.

I'll check out facebook. Thanks!
I'm rehabbing my workshop and while I don't need pro grade metal cabinetry, I like the clean look of everything in drawers and cabinets. No pegboard or open shelving for me.

I had these made by Ulti-mate. I also am not one for exposed storage of tools and etc.
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Phoenix914
post Sep 19 2020, 08:30 AM
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QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Sep 18 2020, 05:11 PM) *

Not sure what to say....if it's just the bottom end 30 hours seems high, send the case to a shop set up for this work (below) and the crank and rods to a crank grinder/machine shop.

http://www.europeanmotorworks.com/vw/engin...se-service.html

...and since Jake posted some /6 porn here's my contribution, 3.0 twin plug that I've been driving all summer in my '74 conversion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I bet with all the work from engine build plus all the work to convert it into a six with 5-bolt, tuning, sorting, tank, etc I'm way over 500 hours, maybe even close to 1000. Still not done this winter I want to do a front cooler and inner longs.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1497554034_thumb.jpg)


Mark Henry, thanks for the advice and link. I have decided that I really can't afford the shop in question and need to take your advice about sending the case to a shop that works on them every day. Even with two-way shipping, it looks like going with EMW would save me a ton of money.

And I had no idea that this discussion would generate all the engine pics - you guys are my heroes!
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Phoenix914
post Sep 19 2020, 08:46 AM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 08:56 PM) *

Made some progress today.. 2563cc for a 912E.


Wow! Is the case coated with the same material as on the heads? I'm sure that is helpful for a stroker with more heat to dissipate.

I'm going to check out the RAT FB page, too.
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Jake Raby
post Sep 19 2020, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE(Phoenix914 @ Sep 19 2020, 06:46 AM) *

QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 18 2020, 08:56 PM) *

Made some progress today.. 2563cc for a 912E.


Wow! Is the case coated with the same material as on the heads? I'm sure that is helpful for a stroker with more heat to dissipate.

I'm going to check out the RAT FB page, too.

No, the case is coated with Zinc Phosphate primer, and a fuel/ heat resistant enamel, as a two- step process. This paint and primer is what's used by Lycoming on their aircraft engines.
The cost to professionally apply thermal dispersant coatings to the crankcase are extreme, due to the insane level of masking that is required. I have done it, but the budget for this engine didn't include it.

We never have thermal concerns. All my engines utilize Nickies cylinders, and a well- proven combination, coupled to dyno optimization for ignition advance, and fuel enrichment.
It has been close to 20 years since I had someone report an overheating concern. In that case, he had re- set his own timing, and created the problem for himself.
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Phoenix914
post Dec 3 2020, 07:37 PM
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I can't believe it's been mid-September since the last post in this thread. I decided to follow Mark Henry's advice and send the engine case to EMW. The shipping cost was more than the work! The bore was standard, so they did a first cut align bore, and then decked the registers and removed/tapped the gallery plugs.

I left the crank, pressure plate, flywheel, and cooling fan at the original machine shop for them to clean and balance. I'm not sure if I am satisfied with their work, so there may be another update on that.

The next steps are to procure a decent micrometer for measuring the crank journals and then ordering bearings. I still haven't decided whether to use the stock connecting rods or buy H-beams - and from where if so.

More to come. Thanks again to all who gave me advice and for the incredible pictures posted to this discussion.
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Jack Standz
post Dec 3 2020, 11:12 PM
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New Empie rods that are supposedly better/lighter than H-Beam rods. I'm also using tool steel type 1 lifters and aluminum pushrods, etc. To keep valve train weight down in a 2.7 liter (4 cylinder) project I've got going (among many others).

https://www.aircooledvintageworks.com/produ...=32332313002029

But, if you want to go with the H-Beam rods, why not the new I-Beam Empis??
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914werke
post Dec 4 2020, 12:02 AM
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QUOTE(Jack Standz @ Dec 3 2020, 09:12 PM) *
New Empie rods that are supposedly better/lighter than H-Beam rods. I'm also using tool steel type 1 lifters and aluminum pushrods, etc. To keep valve train weight down in a 2.7 liter (4 cylinder) project I've got going (among many others). https://www.aircooledvintageworks.com/produ...=32332313002029 But, if you want to go with the H-Beam rods, why not the new I-Beam Empis??

Cuz were working on T4's here ?
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Jack Standz
post Dec 4 2020, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE(914werke @ Dec 4 2020, 01:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Jack Standz @ Dec 3 2020, 09:12 PM) *
New Empie rods that are supposedly better/lighter than H-Beam rods. I'm also using tool steel type 1 lifters and aluminum pushrods, etc. To keep valve train weight down in a 2.7 liter (4 cylinder) project I've got going (among many others). https://www.aircooledvintageworks.com/produ...=32332313002029 But, if you want to go with the H-Beam rods, why not the new I-Beam Empis??

Cuz were working on T4's here ?


Cuz we're working on modifying a T4 with aftermarket parts to get a combination that will meet our goals?

Or you can always keep it bone stock (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

T1 rod journals are larger and used by many T4 builders (and T1 lifters are lots lighter than T4 lifters).
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