1975 1.8 on twin carbs running poorly Options

[Gint]

Sounds retarded (timing) to me. That's easy to figure out. Put a timing light on it. Could be dwell also, especially if it's slipping due to worn parts like the points rubbing block. BTDT Dwell meter. Check the basics and report back.

Ed asked about the clutch slipping. It does sound low for 4th gear at that speed. Worth looking at.

[914Toy]

That helps. Judging by that intake to carb gasket, those carbs have been on a long time. As mentioned, lots of possibilities. Not relevant, but where does that black wire on the + terminal go to? The line coming off the distr vacuum canister too.

The black wire from the +ve terminal goes to the starter motor
The rest of the set up looks like this

Looking at the direction the plug wires follow from the distributor, I believe you have them out of the proper order(?). The picture shows the two spark plug wires on the driver side (next to each other) of the distributor go to the driver side cylinders, similarly the two spark plug wires (also next to each other) on the passenger side go to the passenger side cylinders. This seems rationally wrong to me where the driver side cylinders fire one after the other, similarly passenger side firing one after the other. Check your firing order and attach spark plug wires accordingly. Hope this helps.

[Gint]

No, that's right if I'm not mistaken. 1432

[914Toy]

No, that's right if I'm not mistaken. 1432

Gint is right!. I am surprised that the timing is not sequential from side to side, as in 1,4,2,3 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[porschetub]

Sounds retarded (timing) to me. That's easy to figure out. Put a timing light on it. Could be dwell also, especially if it's slipping due to worn parts like the points rubbing block. BTDT Dwell meter. Check the basics and report back.

Ed asked about the clutch slipping. It does sound low for 4th gear at that speed. Worth looking at.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) thought he had electronic pickup so don't think that will work .
I did mention ignition and valve setting a wee while back so IMO worth asking as this motor has been sitting for sometime and in reality a carb/clean resto.

[Gint]

I didn't catch that it was electronic. I have age related short attention span. Disregard my dwell comment. But not timing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[dt4]

That helps. Judging by that intake to carb gasket, those carbs have been on a long time. As mentioned, lots of possibilities. Not relevant, but where does that black wire on the + terminal go to? The line coming off the distr vacuum canister too.

The black wire from the +ve terminal goes to the starter motor
The rest of the set up looks like this

Looking at the direction the plug wires follow from the distributor, I believe you have them out of the proper order(?). The picture shows the two spark plug wires on the driver side (next to each other) of the distributor go to the driver side cylinders, similarly the two spark plug wires (also next to each other) on the passenger side go to the passenger side cylinders. This seems rationally wrong to me where the driver side cylinders fire one after the other, similarly passenger side firing one after the other. Check your firing order and attach spark plug wires accordingly. Hope this helps.

Would it run if that was the case?
Does any one have a picture of the correct positioning on the distributor top please?

[ndfrigi]

That helps. Judging by that intake to carb gasket, those carbs have been on a long time. As mentioned, lots of possibilities. Not relevant, but where does that black wire on the + terminal go to? The line coming off the distr vacuum canister too.

The black wire from the +ve terminal goes to the starter motor
The rest of the set up looks like this

Looking at the direction the plug wires follow from the distributor, I believe you have them out of the proper order(?). The picture shows the two spark plug wires on the driver side (next to each other) of the distributor go to the driver side cylinders, similarly the two spark plug wires (also next to each other) on the passenger side go to the passenger side cylinders. This seems rationally wrong to me where the driver side cylinders fire one after the other, similarly passenger side firing one after the other. Check your firing order and attach spark plug wires accordingly. Hope this helps.

Would it run if that was the case?
Does any one have a picture of the correct positioning on the distributor top please?

Hello,

1. Did you remove or rotate your dizzy? I know that car was running well and it is running when the car arrived to you.
2. If you still have the original or stock 1975 1.8 Dizzy, the TDC notch on your dizzy should be the RED dot on the pic that I edited.
3. Stock TDC (#1) usually around 11 o’clock and should be on the notch (see pic)

4. If you didn’t touch anything on your engine during the body repair, probably the reason of your rough idle is a carb issue. Maybe jets are clogged or dirty.

I also included a pic from other post that show the vacuum canister is facing/aligned to the Oil tower fill. My previous 75 1.8 F.I. and a 74 1.8 F.I. of a friend that I help fixed has the same location.







Below is a pic where you can find the size of your carb for dellerto.

[dt4]

I haven't disturbed anything since the car arrived, I couldn't drive it in the UK so I didn't know how it was running but it started (after a few turns) and idled OK so I didn't mess with anything
I have only taken the dizzy cap off to look inside to check the contact points and the condition of the rotor arm
There are lugs for the spring clips so I am presuming I have the cap on correctly, it could be possible to rotate it by 180 degrees - would this make a difference?

I think the firing order / leads are correct, if you look at the lead from cylinder one and go clockwise, it is followed by 4, then 3 then 2 so 2 is next to 1. Its only incorrect if you go anti clockwise (as then its 1,2,3,4)

[Gint]

Your firing order is correct based on the picture you originally posted.

This could be a timing/distributor or carb issue. Starting from the beginning and checking everything suggested so far is required.

With the engine on #1 cyl TDC, the rotor should be pointing roughly at the physical location of #1 cylinder provided the dizzy is not 180 degrees out.

I don't know that you should really expect phenomenal performance in 4th gear at 30MPH anyway. But that's relative. If you noticed that it performed decently once before and then you noticed it wasn't for example.

[dt4]

Your firing order is correct based on the picture you originally posted.

This could be a timing/distributor or carb issue. Starting from the beginning and checking everything suggested so far is required.

With the engine on #1 cyl TDC, the rotor should be pointing roughly at the physical location of #1 cylinder on the distributor cap position provided the dizzy is not 180 degrees out.

I don't know that you should really expect phenomenal performance in 4th gear at 30MPH anyway. But that's relative. If you noticed that it performed decently once before and then you noticed it wasn't for example.

Thanks, I'll check the plugs later, I couldn't find my gap gauge so had to order another

How do I get #1 cyl TDC?

[Gint]

I corrected by statement about #1 position in my last post. I added this: "on the distributor cap position" to this line:

With the engine on #1 cyl TDC, the rotor should be pointing roughly at the physical location of #1 cylinder on the distributor cap position provided the dizzy is not 180 degrees out.

Which is roughly 11 o'clock as pointed out earlier in the thread.


I put the car in 5th gear, jack under the control arm of one of the rear wheels ( I use the driver wheel), take the e-brake off, remove the distributor cap and turn that wheel in the forward rotation direction while observing the rotor position until it points to the physical location of #1 cylinder on the distributor cap. That should be it. To truly check, the easiest way is to remove the valve cover and check if both intake and exhaust valves for #1 are closed. This is the first stage required to perform a valve adjustment anyway, so if you're intending to do your own maintenance, it's something you should get used to doing.

Do not use a chopstick down the spark plug hole to check #1 cylinder. Search this forum for that. LOL

If it were me, I'd simply pull the idle jets and clean them out. Then I'd take this car for a drive. Sounds like it's been dormant for a long time. Idle jets get plugged up when sitting, but carb'd 914s generally will maintain carb settings if driven regularly enough. Get it nice and warm, and then drive the $hit out of it. Italian tune up as it were. Then see if things straighten out somewhat. If not, time for a full tune, carb clean/rebuild and a valve adjustment. Which you are probably going to want to do pretty soon anyway if your ready to drive the car again.

Looks great BTW!

[ndfrigi]

Have you tried cleaning your dizzy like what others have mentioned? looks really dirty inside there. And also your pertronix (color black inside your dizzy) may have issue with the contact because of some dirt. Can you rev your engine higher like around 3k rpm? I still really think that it is just a carb issue right now since you haven’t change anything on the engine.
Maybe you can also share a video of your engine running.

[dt4]

thanks @Gint and @ndfrigi
much appreciated
I have just checked the plug gaps, there were around 1mm so I have reset to 0.7mm as per the Haynes manual I am using
I have new plugs on order but will stick with these for now as they looked OK

I will continue to follow the suggestions and report back (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[rhodyguy]

What does the inside of the distr cap look like? That green tinge on the outside looks like pollen. Ancient. The spark plug wires are run pretty helter skelter. everything looks old. Replace dispossables. That + lead for the starter should not run across the top of the engine. The distr needs to be cleaned and weights oiled. Consider the process a comprehensive tuneup. Then approach the carbs.

Does this car have heat exchangers or headers? Atleast one Jtube is missing. A small box of other items are missing too.

Was this car shipped from a west coast port?

[dt4]

What does the inside of the distr cap look like? That green tinge on the outside looks like pollen. Ancient. The spark plug wires are run pretty helter skelter. everything looks old. Replace dispossables. That + lead for the starter should not run across the top of the engine. The distr needs to be cleaned and weights oiled. Consider the process a comprehensive tuneup. Then approach the carbs.

Does this car have heat exchangers or headers? Atleast one Jtube is missing. A small box of other items are missing too.

Was this car shipped from a west coast port?

the inside of the dizzy cap looks ok, the contacts have wear but not worn out
the green tinge is dust from the sanding process when i was prepping the body work, it gets everywhere even through covers
I can reroute the starter cable, is there a proper route for it
I will look for a guide on how to remove and clean the distributor, I dont see and obvious way of unbolting
yest it came from the west coast
It has heat exchangers but I dont have the rest of the pipework or the heater motor, I do have the flap boxes though
thank you

[ndfrigi]

What does the inside of the distr cap look like? That green tinge on the outside looks like pollen. Ancient. The spark plug wires are run pretty helter skelter. everything looks old. Replace dispossables. That + lead for the starter should not run across the top of the engine. The distr needs to be cleaned and weights oiled. Consider the process a comprehensive tuneup. Then approach the carbs.

Does this car have heat exchangers or headers? Atleast one Jtube is missing. A small box of other items are missing too.

Was this car shipped from a west coast port?

the inside of the dizzy cap looks ok, the contacts have wear but not worn out
the green tinge is dust from the sanding process when i was prepping the body work, it gets everywhere even through covers
I can reroute the starter cable, is there a proper route for it
I will look for a guide on how to remove and clean the distributor, I dont see and obvious way of unbolting
yest it came from the west coast
It has heat exchangers but I dont have the rest of the pipework or the heater motor, I do have the flap boxes though
thank you

Here is where the battery + cable routed.
From passenger side rear engine tin you can find a hole (you can buy the grommet from 914rubber) and run at the rear engine tin towards the driver side and goes to the starter.
For now you can just cover the hole from your engine tin to lessen hot air from the bottom of the car that can cause warmer/hotter oil temp.
For cleaning the inside the dizzy, you can just use a electrical cleaning spray and use small soft brush to loosen the dirt while using a vacuum to suck those dirt.

[ndfrigi]

check this video also so It can help you if you will be doing a timing check

https://youtu.be/DWEvopraCxQ

[dt4]

As the weather has been reasonable (dry) this weekend I decided to just drive it and see how it went, there is 5 months of crap weather when i can do garage work.

went for the drive the shit out of approach, the Italian tune up seemed the right thing to do

On both days it took a fair bit of starting and it really didnt pull well when first setting of.
It was very sluggish and wouldnt rev if I put my foot hard on the accelerator, I had to feather the throttle and find a sweet spot where it would pick up revs and speed.

On both days once it got going and after maybe a mile or so it was fine, it pulled well and accelerated strongly.

I drove it pretty hard for an hour or so on both days, managing to find some quiet back roads and was able to give it a good work out.
It does feel a bit squirrely at the back if pressed a little bit in the corners, more the right hand side rear than the left but thats for another day

the main issue is with the poor running when cold / at initial start up

If it had fuel injection i would think it was the cold start injector but as its carbs and doesnt have a choke for initial start up I am looking for suggestions

cheers

[Gint]

Carbs without a choke are always going to be a little temperamental during cold start up.
It sound like it's time to rebuild those carbs, get the crap out and replace all of those old gaskets. But as you said, you've got the winter to do that.