My car is now registered over in the UK so I can enjoy it at long last, I took it out today for the first time other than the short drive to the MOT centre last month

It drove OK to a point but I noticed it was very slow to respond once in 4th gear, it felt very flat and not at all keen to pick up speed
If I shifted from 3rd to 4th at around 30mph / 3500rpm it was sluggish and a just over 30mph in 4th it felt like it was in the wrong gear and needed to down shift back to 3rd

on the hills it soon ran out of grunt and I was having to down shift from 4th to 3rd and even 2nd to get it to rev again and build speed
Setting off on a hill I had to really increase revs in 1st before shifting into 2nd otherwise it would bog down and feel like it was stalling

thoughts:
fuel?
timing?
other?

thank you
David

So many possibilities but, lube the dizzy advance weights as maybe the advance is sticking.

Are the carbs jetted correctly? Possibly your main jets are too small?

Ansbacher

This was Dylan (chi-towns) car so as far as I know, yes

I’ll look it up in my Haynes manual
I guess it’s in here?Click to view attachment

I know it drove OK for Dylan when it was here, but that was sometime ago.

Fuel, air, spark with an eye on anything that has changed.

I’d start with spark as suggested.

IDF carbs? Size? The interior of that distr is pretty dirty.

I shall have to get more involved in how these things work, I don't know how the distributor mounts or how the rotor arm is removed. Ill spend some time reading the Haynes manual and then start with the plugs and work towards the coil.

Are there adjustable points on these?

thanks

ps
No idea on the carb type / size etc...
I'll add a photo and see if any one recognises them

Carbs will have a stamping, which can be hard to see, on the main body in the middle.

https://www.carburetion.com/CarbID/weberID.htm

Pictures on the carbsClick to view attachment Click to view attachment

That helps. Judging by that intake to carb gasket, those carbs have been on a long time. As mentioned, lots of possibilities. Not relevant, but where does that black wire on the + terminal go to? The line coming off the distr vacuum canister too.

You need to be very careful about not changing multiple things at the same time, but one easy test to rule out vacuum leaks given the condition of those gaskets is to carefully spray carb cleaner or starting fluid at the base of the carburetors while the car is idling.

That is probably the easiest test to do, perhaps do that before changing anything else.

I will bet a pint on it being electrical but a bad vacuum leak could present similar issues

NOT ether. Spraying them down will compound the mess. It will drip muck everywhere. Just plan on getting new gaskets, spend some time cleaning the engine compartment and be done with that aspect. I wonder what flavor of distr is installed?

Hmmmm - but it will determine if he has vacuum leaks as an issue. Not saying the gaskets don’t need to be replaced but if he doesn’t have leaks that at least tells us there are other causes. No?

Looks like an electronic ignition module of some sort is installed. That little black box just under the rotor looks like a pickup for a Pertronix style ignition. Also can see a red and black wire tucked in under the rotor as well. Those would go to the pickup of the ignition.

So no points or condenser in there. But as mentioned the advance plates might be gummed up. But you’d probably feel that in all gears and anytime you stomped the accelerator.

But as Kevin said, it looks dirty in the distributor. Would t hurt to clean it. You can check the advance plates while you’re cleaning the distributor. Rotor just pulls off (pull it straight up).

thanks for the input and suggestions chaps, I'll work through them and also feedback on the questions asked and provide a couple of photos of the ignition set up etc....

If you set the engine to #1 cylinder with the rotor pointing close to the notch on the distributor body you can unbolt it by undoing it via the 8mm stud on the case,that way you will keep your current timing location,if you are lined up with your TDC mark on the cooling fan it will only go together one way.
When you have it out remove the small "C" clip on the vacuum advance control rod and remove the canister,you can then spray brake cleaner in and around the top advance assembly and keep moving it back and forward to free it up ,this may take a few attempts because you get a build up of crap between the 2 sliding faces.
once you have it moving freely spray some lube in there as well as removing the felt wick from the shaft under the rotor and put a few drops of engine oil in there.
Next test your vacuum advance before refitting the unit,it should hold vacuum by sucking on the hose and if the hose is dodgy replace it,replace unit and check the advance plate snaps the top advance plate back quickly when vacuum is released .
If not functioning in this way the vacuum to the canister will be overcome by friction and a full teardown of the dizzy will be required,the above method has about a 70% rate of success from my experience.
IMO because the car has been sitting for a while the carbs are most likely in need of a rebuild due to old fuel and crap built up over the years,which with Dellorto carbs is fairly easy to do and plenty of info online.
The above procedure may not cure your issue but it is something that needs to be done on a 40+yr old unit as many on here have found out,these Bosch units are prone to this issue,assuming your ignition is up to scratch and your timing and valves are ok you should be fine,good luck.

3500 rpm should be around 45mph in 3rd and close to 60 in fourth.. any chance your clutch is slipping?

Click to view attachment

The black wire from the +ve terminal goes to the starter motor
The rest of the set up looks like this
Click to view attachment

Sounds retarded (timing) to me. That's easy to figure out. Put a timing light on it. Could be dwell also, especially if it's slipping due to worn parts like the points rubbing block. BTDT Dwell meter. Check the basics and report back.

Ed asked about the clutch slipping. It does sound low for 4th gear at that speed. Worth looking at.

Looking at the direction the plug wires follow from the distributor, I believe you have them out of the proper order(?). The picture shows the two spark plug wires on the driver side (next to each other) of the distributor go to the driver side cylinders, similarly the two spark plug wires (also next to each other) on the passenger side go to the passenger side cylinders. This seems rationally wrong to me where the driver side cylinders fire one after the other, similarly passenger side firing one after the other. Check your firing order and attach spark plug wires accordingly. Hope this helps.

No, that's right if I'm not mistaken. 1432

Gint is right!. I am surprised that the timing is not sequential from side to side, as in 1,4,2,3

thought he had electronic pickup so don't think that will work .
I did mention ignition and valve setting a wee while back so IMO worth asking as this motor has been sitting for sometime and in reality a carb/clean resto.

I didn't catch that it was electronic. I have age related short attention span. Disregard my dwell comment. But not timing.

Would it run if that was the case?
Does any one have a picture of the correct positioning on the distributor top please?

Hello,

1. Did you remove or rotate your dizzy? I know that car was running well and it is running when the car arrived to you.
2. If you still have the original or stock 1975 1.8 Dizzy, the TDC notch on your dizzy should be the RED dot on the pic that I edited.
3. Stock TDC (#1) usually around 11 o’clock and should be on the notch (see pic)

4. If you didn’t touch anything on your engine during the body repair, probably the reason of your rough idle is a carb issue. Maybe jets are clogged or dirty.

I also included a pic from other post that show the vacuum canister is facing/aligned to the Oil tower fill. My previous 75 1.8 F.I. and a 74 1.8 F.I. of a friend that I help fixed has the same location.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Below is a pic where you can find the size of your carb for dellerto.

Click to view attachment

I haven't disturbed anything since the car arrived, I couldn't drive it in the UK so I didn't know how it was running but it started (after a few turns) and idled OK so I didn't mess with anything
I have only taken the dizzy cap off to look inside to check the contact points and the condition of the rotor arm
There are lugs for the spring clips so I am presuming I have the cap on correctly, it could be possible to rotate it by 180 degrees - would this make a difference?

I think the firing order / leads are correct, if you look at the lead from cylinder one and go clockwise, it is followed by 4, then 3 then 2 so 2 is next to 1. Its only incorrect if you go anti clockwise (as then its 1,2,3,4)Click to view attachment

Your firing order is correct based on the picture you originally posted.

This could be a timing/distributor or carb issue. Starting from the beginning and checking everything suggested so far is required.

With the engine on #1 cyl TDC, the rotor should be pointing roughly at the physical location of #1 cylinder provided the dizzy is not 180 degrees out.

I don't know that you should really expect phenomenal performance in 4th gear at 30MPH anyway. But that's relative. If you noticed that it performed decently once before and then you noticed it wasn't for example.

Thanks, I'll check the plugs later, I couldn't find my gap gauge so had to order another

How do I get #1 cyl TDC?

I corrected by statement about #1 position in my last post. I added this: "on the distributor cap position" to this line:

With the engine on #1 cyl TDC, the rotor should be pointing roughly at the physical location of #1 cylinder on the distributor cap position provided the dizzy is not 180 degrees out.

Which is roughly 11 o'clock as pointed out earlier in the thread.


I put the car in 5th gear, jack under the control arm of one of the rear wheels ( I use the driver wheel), take the e-brake off, remove the distributor cap and turn that wheel in the forward rotation direction while observing the rotor position until it points to the physical location of #1 cylinder on the distributor cap. That should be it. To truly check, the easiest way is to remove the valve cover and check if both intake and exhaust valves for #1 are closed. This is the first stage required to perform a valve adjustment anyway, so if you're intending to do your own maintenance, it's something you should get used to doing.

Do not use a chopstick down the spark plug hole to check #1 cylinder. Search this forum for that. LOL

If it were me, I'd simply pull the idle jets and clean them out. Then I'd take this car for a drive. Sounds like it's been dormant for a long time. Idle jets get plugged up when sitting, but carb'd 914s generally will maintain carb settings if driven regularly enough. Get it nice and warm, and then drive the $hit out of it. Italian tune up as it were. Then see if things straighten out somewhat. If not, time for a full tune, carb clean/rebuild and a valve adjustment. Which you are probably going to want to do pretty soon anyway if your ready to drive the car again.

Looks great BTW!

Have you tried cleaning your dizzy like what others have mentioned? looks really dirty inside there. And also your pertronix (color black inside your dizzy) may have issue with the contact because of some dirt. Can you rev your engine higher like around 3k rpm? I still really think that it is just a carb issue right now since you haven’t change anything on the engine.
Maybe you can also share a video of your engine running.

thanks @Gint and @ndfrigi
much appreciated
I have just checked the plug gaps, there were around 1mm so I have reset to 0.7mm as per the Haynes manual I am using
I have new plugs on order but will stick with these for now as they looked OK

I will continue to follow the suggestions and report back

What does the inside of the distr cap look like? That green tinge on the outside looks like pollen. Ancient. The spark plug wires are run pretty helter skelter. everything looks old. Replace dispossables. That + lead for the starter should not run across the top of the engine. The distr needs to be cleaned and weights oiled. Consider the process a comprehensive tuneup. Then approach the carbs.

Does this car have heat exchangers or headers? Atleast one Jtube is missing. A small box of other items are missing too.

Was this car shipped from a west coast port?

the inside of the dizzy cap looks ok, the contacts have wear but not worn out
the green tinge is dust from the sanding process when i was prepping the body work, it gets everywhere even through covers
I can reroute the starter cable, is there a proper route for it
I will look for a guide on how to remove and clean the distributor, I dont see and obvious way of unbolting
yest it came from the west coast
It has heat exchangers but I dont have the rest of the pipework or the heater motor, I do have the flap boxes though
thank you

Here is where the battery + cable routed.
From passenger side rear engine tin you can find a hole (you can buy the grommet from 914rubber) and run at the rear engine tin towards the driver side and goes to the starter.
For now you can just cover the hole from your engine tin to lessen hot air from the bottom of the car that can cause warmer/hotter oil temp.
For cleaning the inside the dizzy, you can just use a electrical cleaning spray and use small soft brush to loosen the dirt while using a vacuum to suck those dirt.

Click to view attachment

check this video also so It can help you if you will be doing a timing check

https://youtu.be/DWEvopraCxQ

As the weather has been reasonable (dry) this weekend I decided to just drive it and see how it went, there is 5 months of crap weather when i can do garage work.

went for the drive the shit out of approach, the Italian tune up seemed the right thing to do

On both days it took a fair bit of starting and it really didnt pull well when first setting of.
It was very sluggish and wouldnt rev if I put my foot hard on the accelerator, I had to feather the throttle and find a sweet spot where it would pick up revs and speed.

On both days once it got going and after maybe a mile or so it was fine, it pulled well and accelerated strongly.

I drove it pretty hard for an hour or so on both days, managing to find some quiet back roads and was able to give it a good work out.
It does feel a bit squirrely at the back if pressed a little bit in the corners, more the right hand side rear than the left but thats for another day

the main issue is with the poor running when cold / at initial start up

If it had fuel injection i would think it was the cold start injector but as its carbs and doesnt have a choke for initial start up I am looking for suggestions

cheers

Carbs without a choke are always going to be a little temperamental during cold start up.
It sound like it's time to rebuild those carbs, get the crap out and replace all of those old gaskets. But as you said, you've got the winter to do that.