"R" rated tires Options

[DanT]

So what is the hot setup for "R" rated tires these days in the 205 size.
Kumho, Toyo, Yoko...?
what rims are you using them with.
Anyone using 5.5x15 steel wheels?

[Trekkor]

a/x or track?

I haved used Falkens, Yok A032R's, Hoosier ax and track DOT tires all on 5.5" rims. Westerns and Pedrini's.

I like the westerns because of the "wrong" backspacing. I give an overall wider track of about an inch and a half over stock spacing.

The Hoosier A3S04's are what Nathan, grant and I are running for a/x. We are all happy. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) they were on closeout to make way for the 05's. They cost a little over $180 each and are only competitive for 60 minutes of a/x Ive been told.

KT

Nathan is on 6.5" rims, Grant's on 8".

[Trekkor]

Yok's on Pedrini's

[Trekkor]

Falkens on stock steelies.

btw, the Toyo RA-1's are the spec tire for the SPEED World GT class series. So they must be o.k. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

KT

[drgchapman]

I use Hoosier's, both "R" and "A" 205's on stock 5.5" rims. Most of us that use the stock width rims are doing so for car classing reasons, particularly a/x. Staying with stock rims doesn't bump you up into hotter classes. "R" is for track, "A" is for a/x.
Trekkor is correct about the life of the "A" Hoosiers, short but sticky.
You might encounter clearance issues with factory wheels and 205's, some rub on the inner wheel well on the rears.

Gary

[Joe Ricard]

Not to rain on anyone parade or go boasting. I'm not but we had this conversation over after race dinner a few events ago.
Most drivers are pissing there money away running on R compound tires.
I for one can not come close to the limit of the tires grip and end up leaving alot on the table. If I were a better driver I coul possibly benefit from the tires I have already worn through.
My car in the hands of a good driver is always TTOD and there is some stiff competition here.

We figured Hoosier ASO4 are twice as expensive as Kumhos or Axenis. lots more expensive and only half the life.

My Kumhos are now done to 2/32" after 175 runs. I figure the driver school and one more event will finish them off.

[Joe Bob]

MY theory.....but hey I'm an attention whore....is why swap tires on your car unless you have a chance at the big dog at the track...I run what I brung.

I mean the purpose of AX and DE is educashun, write? I mean...you wanna run the car to the edge...why change tires and handling characteristics???? Don't ya wanna know how the car performs on the street with the tires you use everyday???

And when you DO win your class.....on street tires....it makes the 1st place loser feel like crap....priceless...

[nebreitling]

nonsense. i'm a decent driver (still A LOT to learn, but top 5 at all our AXs) -- and i'm slower on victoracers than hoosiers. period. for costs i might have to move to another tire (used cantilever slicks come to mind), but there is no chance of being competitive on non-r tires in my class/region.

that said, if it's just about education for you, then hell yeah -- run what you brung...

[grantsfo]

Broad topic, but I have the misfortune of having two cars that use the same tire size that are both lightweight AX cars.

If youre looking for a good street tire that can double as a AX tire you cant beat the Azenis series Falkens. 215 model is the old series (very good) 615 model (more better). While not a R rated tire they should be considered if budget is an issue.

If you want to go to an r rated tire that can be driven to the events, I'm a huge fan of the Yokohama A032R Soft compound tire. Its a great AX tire. Heats up quickly, great response etc. I hear the new Yoko Advan 048 is coming out in 205/50/15 should be an intersting tire.

Toyo RA1. Most people I speak too say they are more of a track tire than AX. They just dont heat up quickly enough for AX.

I have run Trekkors old Hoosier R rated road slicks. They were a little stickier than my Yokohama by the end of my runs. I'm currently running AX compound Hoosiers on 8 inch rims. If anyone doubts that these tires mounted on wide rims are superior to all the other tires mentioned above just look at my time improvements in my past two AX. I drove my stock engined 1.8 into top 20 at the last GGR AX with those tires. Without the Hoosiers there would be no way I could set those times.

Thing I find amazing is the Hoosiers on 8 inch rims actually eliminated understeer in my car. I had the opportunity to drive my 5.5 wheels with Yokohamas at the same AX I had run the Hoosiers and my car was plowing when I made the change.

Also dont underestimate the importance of rim width in getting the best performance from your tires. I'm convinced 8" rims give be an advantage over those with 5.5 rims. Also remember weight is important. Depending on improved class you should be able to go to a larger rim. 7" is as wide as you can go with stock fenders, but think you need to be in FM to run that wide. I think BP is 6" or 6.5"?

Joe, Go eat some chicken strips and have a Mountain Dew. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[J P Stein]

I agree with Nathan and so do a number of SCCA national champs.
Tires are #1 on their list of priorities. Were I to go back to R specs, I'd go with Kumho 710s if they were available in my size..
I've heard all the BS about running lousy tires till one gets a year or 2 experience....and it's just that, pure unadulerated bullshit....notice there is no IMO added.

Granted, if you're just dabbleing in AX, it's not cost effective, but if your serious about being competitive in a class where they are allowed your chances of doing so are nil.....assuming you're in a class with some competition.

[Joe Bob]

Like I said JP....I dabble.....haven't been competitive minded since 1999 when I won the Zone 8 HI class in the "Rocket".....

I just get a kick showing up every once in awhile and beating a racer rick kinda guy by .1 second on street tires.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif)

When I retire and/or the kids are gone, I'll whip out some stickies and do it agin.....

[Dave_Darling]

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Jul 16 2005, 10:34 PM)

So what is the hot setup for "R" rated tires these days in the 205 size. Kumho, Toyo, Yoko...? what rims are you using them with. Anyone using 5.5x15 steel wheels?

The Hot Setup--Hoosier AS03 or AS04 (depending on availability) on 7x15 custom-made lightweight wheels, a la Kieser. (Nobody said this was cheap!!)
There are more people running Hoosiers on stock 5.5x15 alloys than on 7x15 steelies (you have to have those made, but they're much cheaper than alloys). However, I am starting to think that the extra rim width may be worth the weight penalty of using steelies.

All the other setups that I know of are compromised even further.

Then again, I'm a "dabbler", and I run on hard-compound street tires. Budget is more of a consideration for me than competitiveness.

--DD

[grantsfo]

Based on Dans times in the last GGR AX with street tires on his Boxster 1:11 xxx. I think he's possibly a little more than an AX dabbler.

[DanT]

Thanks for the discussion.
Since I plan on running either BI or BP, the widest wheel I can run under our current rules is a 6". If our region changes to the points based system then the sky is the limit depending on the points hit you want to take...I will probably wait until after the rules are addressed in Oct. and then decide on tire and wheel combination. If the rules change to points I may flair the fenders and use 8" fuchs with 245s all around. That is why I will wait for my paint and bodywork until after then.
Yes, I consider myself more than a dabbler after 15 years of this stuff.
The car will really be setup for Timetrials but the general setup should be fairly successful in Axs also.
My last Bi car was able to usually run with the top 2 BP cars back in the mid 1990s when any of our AXs usually had 8-10 Bi and 8-10 BP cars at any given event.
I usually try to guage my performance on the classes above me, not the ones I am running in, especially with AXing in a well set up 914.
Nothing better than passing a 911 on the "big" track with a 4 cylincer 914!
Back when Larry Sharp and I had 914s, at the time I had a 1.7L Ai car and ran headsup with the BP cars like his.
Unfortunately I will have to learn to drive with less horsepower and no ABS all over again!
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Jul 17 2005, 12:42 PM)

Thanks for the discussion. Since I plan on running either BI or BP, the widest wheel I can run under our current rules is a 6".  If our region changes to the points based system then the sky is the limit depending on the points hit you want to take...I will probably wait until after the rules are addressed in Oct. and then decide on tire and wheel combination.  If the rules change to points I may flair the fenders and use 8" fuchs with 245s all around.  That is why I will wait for my paint and bodywork until after then. Yes, I consider myself more than a dabbler after 15 years of this stuff. The car will really be setup for Timetrials but the general setup should be fairly successful in Axs also. My last Bi car was able to usually run with the top 2 BP cars back in the mid 1990s when any of our AXs usually had 8-10 Bi and 8-10 BP cars at any given event. I usually try to guage my performance on the classes above me, not the ones I am running in, especially with AXing in a well set up 914. Nothing better than passing a 911 on the "big" track with a 4 cylincer 914! Back when Larry Sharp and I had 914s, at the time I had a 1.7L Ai car and ran headsup with the BP cars like his. Unfortunately I will have to learn to drive with less horsepower and no ABS all over again! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

Yep hard to beat a well setup 914 for AX. Did you pick up that Bp class 914? ...Congrats if you did. Its going to be great to have so many fast 914's next year in our region. FYI last time I looked at Howards BP car he was running Kuhmos.

[DanT]

No, I did not get the yellow BP car I put the pics of up.
I am getting a '74 virgin and and building it the way I want from the ground up.
So I can do basically what I want. Just depends on where our rules go for next season.
May cause quite a shake up. 4 banger 914s running against 996TTs in Timetrial...what are the adhoc comm. guys thinking about?
Oh well, that is another discussion.
Hope all of you GGR/Zone 7 AXers and TTers are looking over the points proposal.
It will drastically change the face of competition in our zone.
Make sure to be informed
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[anthony]

There's no crime in using regular tires and going for class wins. I do autocross because it's fun. Both my cars are bone stock and I think it's fun to drive them as they came from the factory. I'm not against mods but if I did any to the silver 914 they would have to be invisible mods. At this point with the pending rule change I'm not really doing anything to the cars this year.

Personally, I wish more stock 914s would show up to Bay Area events. I'm sure I could easily win both B stock and K stock by just showing up enough times though I'm not sure if that will happen since I didn't do any early season events.

[J P Stein]

I just noticed a problem with the test data. They used different cars for the 2 types of tires.....dickheads.....so the time comparo is drivel......sorry bout that. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Jul 17 2005, 01:11 PM)

No, I did not get the yellow BP car I put the pics of up. I am getting a '74 virgin and and building it the way I want from the ground up. So I can do basically what I want. Just depends on where our rules go for next season. May cause quite a shake up. 4 banger 914s running against 996TTs in Timetrial...what are the adhoc comm. guys thinking about? Oh well, that is another discussion. Hope all of you GGR/Zone 7 AXers and TTers are looking over the points proposal. It will drastically change the face of competition in our zone. Make sure to be informed (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

Yeah I noticed that 996 TT was running in AX10 or11 with me at one point this year in AX. Boxsters are there too. I was thinking a Boxster with Falken Tires would be class winner in Techincal TT courses and most AX events in those classes. 914's seem to get penalized pretty heavily for mods that dont add a tremendous amount of speed or handling capability under the new classing scheme.

I'm doing away with all the class nonsense and just building a fast AX car period. Something that will give me ability to challenge top 5. I dont do enough track events to really care about classes yet.

[Trekkor]

JP, what data are you referring too?

Grant and Nathan, your driving and tire/rim combos is proof that the 914 in any motor trim is a competitor (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

Dan, It'll be fun to watch you creep up on us... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

Mikey Zee, I'm hoping you come up and run the two day Zone 7 a/x at Marina with us on August 13th and 14th. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)


KT