 1974 914 - Tig welding and Metalshaping saved it! Back on the road! |
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| TRS63 |
 Jul 24 2021, 10:34 PM
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#41
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe 
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Well, nothing really new here.. Just driving it a lot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1627187661.1.jpg) And got myself a nice book for inspiration.. I know slippery slope.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1627187662.2.jpg) But no big work yet, I need to move forward on my crazy ghia project! Cheers Antoine |
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| djway |
Jul 24 2021, 10:55 PM
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#42
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 16-October 15 From: Riverside Member No.: 19,266 Region Association: Southern California |
I just figured out the Ghia in the old stone and timber garage on the Samba is you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Some great metal fabrication. |
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| TRS63 |
Aug 10 2021, 02:30 AM
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe
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QUOTE(djway @ Jul 24 2021, 10:55 PM)  I just figured out the Ghia in the old stone and timber garage on the Samba is you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Some great metal fabrication. Yes it's me, thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) About metalwork.. Well, looks like the slippery slope is about to start (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The previous owner had the car more than 10 years, but drove it 100 miles a year, only with perfect weather and always garaged. The black paint (at least 20 years old) was not perfect but not bad too..and it's normally a good sign after so many years.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Then I came.. And what did I do.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Which revealed some not so nice things.. Paint is showing some bubbles in some places.. And on some places more than just bubbles.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Small examples: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584207.1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584208.2.jpg) So... Let's remove the rockers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Driver's side: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584209.3.jpg) And under it no surprises, looks good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584209.4.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584209.5.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584210.6.jpg) And the passenger side.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584210.7.jpg) Well, under the door sill is not that bad: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584211.8.jpg) But under the long.. Well fiberglass was well hidden: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584211.9.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584211.10.jpg) And on the inside under the belt fixation was also nicely fiberglassed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628584212.11.jpg) Due to the access I have no pictures but of course the hell hole is with fiberglass.. So... I have no choice than taking care of it seriously, I love metalwork and I am not the type doing things halfway/hiding stuff.. So the plan: -first finishing the heater channel I started on my ghia to avoid stopping something in the middle of it and moving it again in the back of my shop -repairing the necessary on the Porsche. No extra fancy stuff (I want to have it on the road as fast as possible again to enjoy it and work again on the ghia) but all the necessary: frunk sealing channel, sail panel on both sides, hell hole and right long. What is open is if I am doing in the same time the inner long stiffening/GT stiffening/outside repaint. We'll see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I read a lot here on the forum to get it as good and efficient as possible. I will have a lot of questions but for now: -I will put of course doors bracing, but how do I handle the tube for the hell hole welding? On the lift, without all suspensions, wheels,..? On the floor on its wheels ? On jackstand but positioned where ? I would love to hear your advices here! -would you build a "frame jig" or with the door braces and if necessary a couple other braces/jig (like trailing arm mount to get the position if rusted) that should be OK ? Thanks a lot and stay tuned, things will move here! Antoine |
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| TRS63 |
Aug 11 2021, 05:25 AM
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe
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Hi guys,
What do you recommand for my repair on the long/hell hole? -door braces and Body Dolly like the one from Jeff Hail ? If so, how do you put it on the Dolly ? I don't own a 2 post lift, "only" a scissor lift, which means no way to get it up with it and put the dolly under it.. If with jackstand, where would it be safe to position them to have the car high enough to be put on the dolly but not in the way? I want to prepare it the best I can and look forward to your advices! Thanks Antoine |
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| TRS63 |
Aug 11 2021, 11:40 PM
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe
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I thought a lot about it yesterday.. I think I will do it like that :
-put door braces -remove the engine, tank,.. -put the car on jackstands using long wood to get the jackstands out of the way -remove the front and back axles -make a frame like this one (it's my ghia) : (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628746838.1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1628746839.2.jpg) that will be fixed to as many points as possible (front suspensions points, engine mount, gearbox mount,... to be both stable and usable as a jig for the long/eventually suspension console. Bonus will be to be able to mount it on my rotisserie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Sounds like a plan or ? Antoine |
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| Arno914 |
Aug 12 2021, 12:40 AM
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 233 Joined: 13-May 20 From: near Frankfurt, Germany Member No.: 24,260 Region Association: Germany
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Hello Antoine,
depending on the amount of welding necessary on your 914 you might want to borrow my "Celette". I wish you success Arno |
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| wonkipop |
Aug 12 2021, 03:16 AM
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#47
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,243 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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thats a plan.
you are going to need to spin it. good luck and you did the right thing driving it and enjoying it first. |
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| TRS63 |
Aug 12 2021, 03:32 AM
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe
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Thanks a lot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) I started to measure everything to make my frame jig. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Arno you've got a PM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Antoine |
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| Tenner |
Aug 12 2021, 04:15 AM
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#49
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 22-June 10 From: Germany Member No.: 11,863 Region Association: Germany |
Hey Antoine, I‘am realy sorry about to see the issues on your car. These are nearly the same issues then my car had. In dont think there is a way for a quick repair
In your case I would make a patch to the rustholes at the long big enough to stiffen the area and Drive the car until your Karmann is back to road. I'm pretty sure you'll find more to do at the 914 while your're at work on it. For a propper repair you have to build a frame like that  This is combined with a rotisserie. I dont think there is a need for a celette bench. You‘ll need to replace the inner long in the enginebay and as far I can see also the outer long. If you have to repair both, this can be done without cutting or removing the quaterpanel. But you have to remove the engine mount and the suspension console. The panels from Restoration Design (they do a great Job for the 914 community) are a good startingpoint. I have highly modified them to meet my requirements. If you have to replace the inner long in the passenger bay, Mittelmotor is a good source. They made good panel with the right dimensions for a reasonable price. Tenner |
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| TRS63 |
Aug 12 2021, 05:49 AM
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe
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Hi Tenner,
Thanks a lot for your answer! The frame you made is exactly what I had in mind.. Thanks for confirming it! About the strategy: that is more or less my plan (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) I want the car to drive safely but would love to wait after the ghia to restore it fully.. So that's how I will proceed: -bring the car in my shop, remove the interior/the engine/gearbox, scrape where it seems rusted to get a good overview of the damages. -if it can be safely made as you said, means patching the long+seat Belt mount+hell hole, then I will do it after bracing the doors and put it back on the street, driving until I am done with the ghia. Then it will be fully restored -if damages are too important, like suspension consoles,..Well, the ghia will have a longer break and I will have to go deeper on the 914.. Let's see, I will keep you all in touch! Cheers Antoine [b] |
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| Cairo94507 |
Aug 12 2021, 06:27 AM
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#51
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 9,713 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California
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It can be a slippery slope once you start digging into the rust. I hope your rust is minor and you can patch it and get your 914 back on the road to enjoy it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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| TRS63 |
Aug 16 2021, 08:11 AM
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#52
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe
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QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Aug 12 2021, 06:27 AM) It can be a slippery slope once you start digging into the rust. I hope your rust is minor and you can patch it and get your 914 back on the road to enjoy it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) You're absolutely right.. We'll see when the engine is out how it looks like from the inside, suspension console,.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I want to drive it again as fast as possible but I want a safe car that is not going to suffer from any bump on the street.. Better be safe and take the time to do it properly now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) So, I asked my qualified employee (aka my 5 years old boy who is already wrenching with me as much as possible !) to remove the interior (except the driver's seat to drive it to my shop tomorrow) to better see what we got.. Well, rust (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Driver's side, in the corner: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123067.1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123068.2.jpg) And under the seat belt up in the firewall, I don't know how it rusted here, was no hole, just rust where I got through with the screwdriver.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123069.3.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123069.4.jpg) On the passenger side I only found some bad fixes from the past.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123069.5.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123070.6.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123070.7.jpg) Well.. I'm in for real.. Not that I don't like it (metalshaping is my passion and I love welding, especially TIG) but this one is planned as a driver so will try to get it back on the road as fast as possible (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Cheers Antoine |
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| TRS63 |
Aug 16 2021, 08:11 AM
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe
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QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Aug 12 2021, 06:27 AM) It can be a slippery slope once you start digging into the rust. I hope your rust is minor and you can patch it and get your 914 back on the road to enjoy it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) You're absolutely right.. We'll see when the engine is out how it looks like from the inside, suspension console,.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I want to drive it again as fast as possible but I want a safe car that is not going to suffer from any bump on the street.. Better be safe and take the time to do it properly now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) So, I asked my qualified employee (aka my 5 years old boy who is already wrenching with me as much as possible !) to remove the interior (except the driver's seat to drive it to my shop tomorrow) to better see what we got.. Well, rust (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Driver's side, in the corner: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123071.1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123072.2.jpg) And under the seat belt up in the firewall, I don't know how it rusted here, was no hole, just rust where I got through with the screwdriver.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123073.3.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123073.4.jpg) On the passenger side I only found some bad fixes from the past.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123074.5.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123074.6.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.thesamba.com-24690-1629123074.7.jpg) Well.. I'm in for real.. Not that I don't like it (metalshaping is my passion and I love welding, especially TIG) but this one is planned as a driver so will try to get it back on the road as fast as possible (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Cheers Antoine |
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| Root_Werks |
Aug 16 2021, 09:25 AM
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#54
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,305 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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You seem to be on the right path to take the 914 apart and fix it correctly. If someone has a bench to suspend the body, that would be good.
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| TRS63 |
Aug 16 2021, 11:41 AM
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#55
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 14-September 20 From: Germany - Stuttgart Member No.: 24,690 Region Association: Europe
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I own a lift and a rotisserie so no problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I will probably create a frame jig and fix it to the rotisserie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Cheers Antoine |
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| Cairo94507 |
Aug 16 2021, 12:51 PM
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#56
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 9,713 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California
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I am sorry to see that. But it seems like you have got this well in hand. I look forward to seeing the repairs. The great news is once repaired you will not have to deal with that again.
There is a special place in hell for people who use fiberglass to cover up rust. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) |
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| bkrantz |
Aug 16 2021, 08:51 PM
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#57
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,732 Joined: 3-August 19 From: SW Colorado Member No.: 23,343 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Aug 16 2021, 12:51 PM) I am sorry to see that. But it seems like you have got this well in hand. I look forward to seeing the repairs. The great news is once repaired you will not have to deal with that again. There is a special place in hell for people who use fiberglass to cover up rust. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) Fiberglass AND undercoating. |
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| Cairo94507 |
Aug 20 2021, 07:35 AM
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#60
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 9,713 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California
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Yeah man- you are going to have that all taken care of quickly. Looks like that chassis is in pretty good shape overall. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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