2.7 S motor, How to tell for real Options

[Joe Ricard]

So this guy is always pestering me about my car. He is always telling me he has a 411 or bus motor to sell me bigger carbs or wider 13" wheels.

Well this time he got my attention. Says he gots a 69 911 that has most of the stuff to be a runner. Including a magnesium cased 2.7 S motor. Says it has an automatic trans in the car. Engine came to him froma separate deal.??????

What do I look for to tell if it is an S motor. Carbs or CIS. any serial Number ranges? The engine is out of the car so what to look for being missing that will caost me a pretty penny to get it running.

Yea I nearly can't pass up the price which is still in negotiation

UH the stipper my get a 6 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

[Sparky]

I thought the '69 S was a mag cased 2.0? Anyone?

[TimT]

Should have MFI,

and the s/n should be 639XXX or 630XXX
6=cylinders
3=S
9=model year
XXX=sequential #

and should have 901/, or 911/02 stamped on it

it depends if its a 68-69S or 69-70S

Oops, I thought he was looking for 69S info..overlooked the 2.7 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by TimT: Jul 18 2005, 09:08 AM

[lapuwali]

The 2.7S is a bit tricky. I believe all of the US engines were the same in terms of power output. There was nothing special about the US S v. non-S engines. This was the worst of the early smog era. 165hp or thereabouts. The type number will be 911/8x or 911/9x if it's a '74-'77 2.7 engine.

Yes, the '69 S was mag-cased, but it was also a 2.0. I think Joe is referring to a car with an engine swap. All of the road-going non-turbo 911 engines from roughly '68 to '77 were mag-cased. The '65-'68 engines were sand-cast Al, and the Turbo and SC and Carrera engines from '78 on were die-cast Al.

[Joe Ricard]

Thanks Guys now my head is spinning (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif) real gud.
MFI ???? yet another FI system I know nothing about. I mean I had CIS down good from the 928. and D-jet was simple from my original 1.7L teener motor.
What's MFI stand for?

165 HP? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) well for all the hassle I'm going to have to bump that up some. $$$$$$
Going to need 200 minimum

I plan on nuthing being left of the 911 when I'm done cept a carcass. All that is possible will go into the stripper.

[tshih914]

MFI is mechanical fuel injection, meaning there is a fuel pump driven off the cam via a belt which supplies pressurized fuel to the engine (instead of carbeurators or electronic FI). However the delivery rate has to be matched to the engine size and requirements. There are less support for resuscitation of this type of FI these days.

[Joe Bob]

Bruce Anderson's books include an engine decoding section that list all the HP/bore/stroke and serial/engine numbers. Gud book to have on the shelf.

When I go engine shopping it's always with me.

[Dave_Darling]

MFI == Mechanical Fuel Injection. This was based on older Diesel fuel injection systems, except that the fuel was sprayed in the intake port rather than into the combustion chamber directly. The "jerk pump" (don't laugh, that's what it's called!) has a complex "space cam" inside it that varies the amount of fuel the pump puts out depending on engine load and engine speed. Somewhat primitive system, fairly difficult to control accurately--so the factory just set it up to be rich all the time. Amazing throttle response because the amount of fuel going in is set directly by the mechanical linkage; no waiting for air flow to build up and move a plate which then increases a pressure somewhere which results in more fuel going in...

There were three 2.7-spec engines that I know of. The US got two of them. 74 and possibly 75 911s could have the "non-S" 2.7 engine, which I think made about 150 HP. Most 74-77 cars in the US had the "S" 2.7 engine, which made 165 HP as already alluded to. All had CIS. The final version wasn't available in the US--it was the famous Carrera RS motor. 210 HP, MFI, nowhere near smog legal...

US-spec 2.7s tend to have reliability problems unless you spend a lot of money to rebuild them "right". They like to pull head studs, they like to overheat, they like to leak oil more than a 914 motor does. Most people seem to feel that the 2.7 was a bit too large for the magnesium crankcase, though going to the five-blade fan probably didn't help and certainly the smog crap (THERMAL REACTORS BAD!!!) on the 75+ CA-spec cars hurt things immensely.

If you want real power out of the 2.7 engine, you will want to ditch the CIS for carbs, ditch the stock exhaust for headers (you'll need that for 914 installation anyway), and go with higher-compression pistons and a much more aggressive cam. Oh, and build the rest of the motor to live with that kind of RPM and power capacity.

--DD

[Joe Ricard]

Crap! looks like even at $1000.00 for the whole car I'll need the whole car to go on EBAY to make enough money to build the enf=gine up to respectable / reliable power.

But then again all that 911 shit (suspension, Fuchs, gauges, etc.) should make for a nice teener with a big four banger. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) He said something about an aftermarket sway bar but IDONNO what that means.

I am starting to get skeptical of anyone claiming "the car would make a great race car" Translation bucket of bolts not wort restoring to street use and cost a bazillion dollars to really go fast.

[Dman]

This is a good website with a lot of info about engine #s and production stuff.

http://www.pacoza.co.za/site2/Common/Porsc...porscheMain.asp

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jul 18 2005, 08:18 AM)

Including a magnesium cased 2.7 S motor. Says it has an automatic trans in the car. Carbs or CIS. What do I look for to tell if it is an S motor. any serial Number ranges?

all 2,7's had 7R mag cases.
automatic is unlikely, borderline impossible.
Sportomatic is *possible* - but there were no SportoMatic S's.

with the engine and the transmission you will need the TYPE NUMBER to tell you what it was originally. the engine serial number will also be a strong clue. both numbers are at the crankshaft pulley area on the engine, right side. the transmission Type number is on the bottom rib.

casting numbers are useless.

induction can be anything now. it should have been some CIS originally. could be anything now.

a LWB car will have useful suspension parts; an S should have had the aluminum calipers.

get the Type and Serial numbers and they'll be able to be cross-referenced.

the '73 2,7RS was a 210HP engine, but it had MFI. you can get 200-215 with Webers but you'll have to work at it. if you're replacing P&C's, a bump to 92mm is pretty easy nowadays (2,8) and used to be the class limit in SOLO-II F-Prepared.

the 2,7 claim to fame is not really screaming top-end HP, but they are good torque motors. 200HP with a solid broad torque band makes for a flexible and fun ride.

as with big 4's, there is no upper bound on what you can spend...

[HotRod]

A 74 thru 77 "S" will have the cast iron calipers, the 76 Turbo used the "S" Calipers, but they stopped uding them on 911S in 73, I think.

To be honest, I wouldn't waste too much in tyrying to put together a 2.7 motor, although some will disagree, I don't think the 7R cases are worth putting any money in. The heads will be worth something, you can use the Euro RS pistons, but the 7R cases had head stud problems, I backdated mine to a 67 Aluminum case for the enduro motor.

[lapuwali]

The 7R cases only had head stud problems because of things like thermal reactor emissions devices. A rebuilt 2.7 with case savers or the like (time-serts, etc), better studs, and a backdated exhaust or header can make a nice (relatively) cheap street engine. They're so maligned that prices for them are depressed, yet a rebuild doesn't really cost any more than it does for one of the other engines. Like Rich said, 200hp is pretty easy to reach with these, with excellent torque. This is more than a stock SC engine, with less weight, too, for usually less money.

The first of the 7R cases, the ones used in the late '73 2.4s, are actually supposed to be pretty nice. They have all of the extra reinforcement, but also have thicker cylinder spigot bosses for the smaller cylinders.

[Joe Ricard]

Good point. as I will ring it's little neck like a do the type 4 I have now.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (HotRod @ Jul 18 2005, 01:55 PM)

A 74 thru 77 "S" will have the cast iron calipers, the 76 Turbo used the "S" Calipers, but they stopped uding them on 911S in 73, I think.

but a '69 S, such as the car in question, should have them ...

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jul 18 2005, 02:04 PM)

Good point. as I will ring it's little neck like a do the type 4 I have now.

if you are planning an 8000 rpm engine, shuffle pins are important.
if you can stay below that, less so.