Which is the best handling car?, 911,356, or my favorite 914?? Options

[second wind]

So I saw one of the best looking and built up 356's today.....and I went to the last Rennsport and watched 911's and 914's race each other....so my question is this....which model handles the best? I have been in a 356 that had 250 hp and all my friends have 914's with at least that....911's have even more. The 356 today looked so good that I said to myself..."Wow...what could possibly out handle that car?". Just a fun question for a Saturday night....
All the best,
gg

[anglophone1]

Heresy- but try a 924 too!

[mlindner]

Well, I've had them all and I'd say the 928.

[Shivers]

Porsche's choice, amongst other auto makers have used the mid engine configuration in their most successful race cars. If you put the same hp, into a similarly set up. 911, 914 and a 356, my opinion is the 914 would come out on top.

[Cairo94507]

I can only comment between the 911 and the 914. I have had 7 911s and 4 914s, 3 of which were original 6s. I will take the 914 every time as the best handling in my limited experience.

[Jett]

Well, I've had them all and I'd say the 928.

Lol I was going to say the same. The 928 is by far the most comfortable but my 996 TT AWD is definitely the best handling.

[Jett]

I can only comment between the 911 and the 914. I have had 7 911s and 4 914s, 3 of which were original 6s. I will take the 914 every time as the best handling in my limited experience.

Compared to a G body you are dead on, the 914 is much better when there are front and rear sway bars.

[brant]

The newest design handles best

The oldest the worse

356 is too old to out handle modern engineering

[roblav1]

My 08 Cayman is the best handling Porsche I ever had. I used to race formula cars... pro licensed.

[Superhawk996]

Main issue is that "handling" is highly subjective on the road. Without lap times or data acquisition to gather objective data, it comes down to personal preference for most drivers. I once was talking to some one telling me about how they like the handling of a car they liked. Turned out what they were really talking about was ride quality. Went down the road like. . . . riding on a cloud. I kid you not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Mid engine, low Cg, and wide track width is going to win out on handling from a physics standpoint all other things being equal (which they never are).

Once you get into comparison with modern vehicles with something other than trailing arm suspension, all bets are off. However, 914 still stands up very well against modern vehicles despite it's age and simplicity.

[Tdskip]

Depends hugely on generation and spec and tuning.

[horizontally-opposed]

Mid engine, low Cg, and wide track width is going to win out on handling from a physics standpoint all other things being equal (which they never are).

Once you get into comparison with modern vehicles with something other than trailing arm suspension, all bets are off. However, 914 still stands up very well against modern vehicles despite it's age and simplicity.

Bingo.

There's a reason most race-car engineers who can make their car mid-engined, do so.

As much as I love mid-engined road cars, I've driven front- and rear-engined cars that handled better and were more fun than many mid-engined sports cars. Damping/setup, use case, personal preference, etc all come into play. An early 928 is a lovely thing, and there's also something to be said for the 911's slow-in/fast-out approach (particularly on a road where you can't see around the bends…), "challenge/reward" handling dynamics, and supremely satisfying way of putting its power down.

And yet: A humble 1973 914 1.7 is the one I chose to keep again and again. It's very hard to beat the 914 for light + right + vintage Porsche sounds and smells.

[bbrock]

Mid engine, low Cg, and wide track width is going to win out on handling from a physics standpoint all other things being equal (which they never are).

Once you get into comparison with modern vehicles with something other than trailing arm suspension, all bets are off. However, 914 still stands up very well against modern vehicles despite it's age and simplicity.

Bingo.

There's a reason most race-car engineers who can make their car mid-engined, do so.

As much as I love mid-engined road cars, I've driven front- and rear-engined cars that handled better and were more fun than many mid-engined sports cars. Damping/setup, use case, personal preference, etc all come into play. An early 928 is a lovely thing, and there's also something to be said for the 911's slow-in/fast-out approach (particularly on a road where you can't see around the bends…), "challenge/reward" handling dynamics, and supremely satisfying way of putting its power down.

And yet: A humble 1973 914 1.7 is the one I chose to keep again and again. It's very hard to beat the 914 for light + right + vintage Porsche sounds and smells.

I was thinking something similar. I'm not a racer so this is just spewing crap I've read, but I was thinking of how the trailing throttle oversteer of the tail draggers could be weaponized by those who learned how to tame the dragon. It seems like "best handling" also depends on who is sitting in the driver's seat.

[second wind]

The newest design handles best

The oldest the worse

356 is too old to out handle modern engineering

The bathtub being lowered and strong engine just looked like nothing could flip it over....I guess the rear engine is what kills it?
gg

[Superhawk996]

The newest design handles best

The oldest the worse

356 is too old to out handle modern engineering

The bathtub being lowered and strong engine just looked like nothing could flip it over....I guess the rear engine is what kills it?
gg

Don't get me wrong I admire a 356 for what it was in a period when domestic iron handled even worse.

Rear engine is the least of its limitations.

Lack of camber gain on front suspension is a deal breaker.
Way too many parts in the front suspension -- each part just adds more compliance especially as things wear.
Steering is via gear box, not rack and pinion. Again just more linkages and more compliance.
Swing Axle rear suspension with high roll center and jacking effects.

I'd love to have a 356 someday but it wouldn't be for handling!

[StarBear]

Mostly not applicable, but in early years 74-76) after first buying my 1.8L I'd "rat race" with my friend and his GTO around an office park on Sunday afternoons. Without either of our cars being "race setup", nor helmets, etc., I'd routinely beat him on anything but the two short straight sections, where he'd absolutely run me down. All told, we came out about even, then went for beers (AFTER the racing - not before)! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
Youthful fun.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[roblav1]

For some reference:
My 79 928 was an eye opener in how front engine cars can handle. The 89 944TS was even better.

For mid engine, the Lotus Esprit V8 twin turbo was The Worst handling car! Chassis is a flexible flyer. Drove it once and promptly sold it.

Early short wheelbase 911/912 feel very "alive". Stock steering wheels are too big.
Later long hoods less alive.

964 C4 was pretty cool but felt heavy and the steering somewhat dead.

914s were cool but seriously lacked power in 1.7 trim. Looking forward to finally driving my Euro 3.0 six version.

As has been said before, everyone has a different perspective, which was obvious to me in setting up race cars.

[flyer86d]

I agree that the 944TS is a superb handling chassis. At Bridgehampton way back when, I could piss all over them coming onto the main straight in our hot rod 80 SC. We would hit 150 before the bridge and as I lifted for the sweeper, they would pass me on the inside without lifting. I would catch them on the next short chute and pass them on the inside of the kink. Then they would pass coming out of the hook in the back and we would do it all over again.

The 80 SC was never a great handling car but it was real fast. Our old 73 911 was a great handling car probably because it was very light. The suspension was all stock with the exception of delrin spring plate bushings and will always be one of my favorites.

Our old 914 was an amazing handling car. We just added sway bars and it was perfect. A superb autocross car and great track toy.

When we restored our old 58 coupe in the 80s thru early 90s, we couldn’t get replacement rubber suspension bushings. We installed a complete delrin suspension bushing set in it and it worked great! The car handled like it was a go kart with no harshness from the road. It was amazing. I never tracked that car but with modern rubber and aggressive alignment, it was a joy to drive.

I’ve done the 68 911 that I am building with rubber in the front and delrin in the rear. Those big rubber spring plate bushings allow too much toe change. We’ll see how it works.

Charlie

[bkrantz]

Main issue is that "handling" is highly subjective on the road. Without lap times or data acquisition to gather objective data, it comes down to personal preference for most drivers. I once was talking to some one telling me about how they like the handling of a car they liked. Turned out what they were really talking about was ride quality. Went down the road like. . . . riding on a cloud. I kid you not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Mid engine, low Cg, and wide track width is going to win out on handling from a physics standpoint all other things being equal (which they never are).

Once you get into comparison with modern vehicles with something other than trailing arm suspension, all bets are off. However, 914 still stands up very well against modern vehicles despite it's age and simplicity.

Agreed. Even with identical weight, horsepower, tires, etc. a mid-engine car might post faster lap times, but that depends on the track (and maybe the driver).

On the road, we often want driving pleasure (or comfort!). I love how 914s and Boxsters feel so nimble and neutral, but I also love the special feeling of a 911--not neutral but entertaining.

[horizontally-opposed]

Another one is the early Z3 M Roadster with the 240-hp engine: Didn't handle right, but sure handled fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Also: Was actually a better tool for an emergency lane-change test than an otherwise superior 987 2.7 as you barreled towards three traffic lights at 60+ mph only to have two turn red. "Less planted" in that case helped you pivot so long as you were game to sort the slide out. A lot of grins, all around.