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> I need sixth gear, and some downforce.
TimT
post Jul 21 2003, 05:40 PM
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OK since Watkins Glen was mentioned recently in another thread. I need to sort some things with my 914/6

I just got back from the glen and was a track slut, instructing for a BMW club... I instructed and got free track time!!! way cool!!! and a free dinner in the glen club!

I have the handling issues pretty well sorted. The car responds to my right foot beautifuly I can make it push, throttle steer, etc depending on the turn

Entering the braking zone for the bus stop, and turn one Im pretty much going as fast as the gears I have allow!! 135+

I had issues with the rear brake lock under high speed braking, and have dialed it out with the proportioning valvle. I now believe its a lack of downforce, that caused my braking prob, not chassis set up. If I get some good downforce I can dial in some more rear brake, and that would be a good thing.

Id like to get downforce without a big ass wing stuck up in the clean air!!.

The car has the 916 type fiberglass spoiler on it now, but im not sure if that thing works at all..

Are those nascar type spoilers made for retail, or are the custom fabbed for each car? MJ Hanna sent me some pics of his car when I was in the market that had what looked like a functional spoiler on it.

Is that the way to go?

heheh the six speed, my friend hasa g50 6 speed. I think that would go great in my car with some close gears.
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Brad Roberts
post Jul 21 2003, 05:43 PM
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Are you getting lift ?? or do you need downforce ??

Marks car had a 6 inch Sheridan style rear "spoiler" on it.

The main function is not downforce.. but to stop air from circulating too close to the rear of the car. The spoiler makes this happen further behind the car so it cant "lift" the rear end at high speed.


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TimT
post Jul 21 2003, 05:54 PM
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Brad the rear of the car get squirrely under hard braking at speeds over about 125. Im thinking if I had some downforce the rear would stay planted. Actually it feels like lift

At the glen. climbing the esses the rear feels light when I change direction.. then braking for the bus stop the rear starts to step out a bit ( major pucker factor). I throw the car around the bus stop, but thats not the fastest way.

I think need someway to get some downforce..maybe the sheridan wing is what I nedd

Do 914s generate lift like my early 911 does?

thanks for the insight
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Brad Roberts
post Jul 21 2003, 05:57 PM
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The 914's will lift big time in the rear without some sort of spoiler on the rear (over 120 mph)

I do think a Sheridan "spoiler" would help you out. Its really the last step before you end up with a mondo wing.


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drew365
post Jul 21 2003, 06:06 PM
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Here's a pic of the rear spoiler on my car. It's larger than the normal duck tail. I haven't enough track time with it to say how well it works but a friend that has the same spoiler says that in turn 8 at Willow Springs which is a high speed sweeper at the end of the back straight, his car is much more planted and stable.


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TimT
post Jul 21 2003, 06:08 PM
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So if I want to be a lazy ass I can call sheridan and would know what Im asking for and be able to crank one out for me?
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drew365
post Jul 21 2003, 06:08 PM
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Here's a side profile.


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Brad Roberts
post Jul 21 2003, 06:12 PM
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He would. Tell him Brad Roberts sent you from the 914club.

Drews "spoiler is cool. You can buy them moulded to Carbon Fiber decklids for our cars.

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TimT
post Jul 21 2003, 06:22 PM
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Here is the current aero state of my car LOL

hard to see the rear spoiler


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URY914
post Jul 21 2003, 07:17 PM
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Here is a shot of my rear spoiler. I've mounted the oil cooler in the middle of it. I want to make it as wide as the car but I haven't come up with a final design yet.

Paul


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Brad Roberts
post Jul 21 2003, 07:19 PM
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Oh.. I never noticed the "end plates" VERY NICE.

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URY914
post Jul 21 2003, 07:23 PM
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Hand laid-up fiberglass and a whole lot of sanding with more bondo than I wanted to use.

Paul
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TimT
post Jul 21 2003, 07:59 PM
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Nice work Paul, not to sure about having the cooler where is might catch some debris..... Then auto-x is different than club racing.. both are equally as intense
Im just trying to find a way that the rear of my car doesnt get unsettled when I hit the brakes at 130~
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URY914
post Jul 21 2003, 08:17 PM
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Tim,
...catch some debris?

It is safer there than up front where it will catch everything.

Paul
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TimT
post Jul 21 2003, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE
Tim,
...catch some debris?


yea I come off the track and I chips all over the front of my car, and rubber snots all over the rear.. I guess anywhere you place an oil cooler its vulnerable
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redshift
post Jul 21 2003, 08:51 PM
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campbellcj
post Jul 21 2003, 09:52 PM
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I'm gonna do f/g lids and the Sheridan 6" "SCCA" spoiler as soon as my bank account gets an IV drip of cold cash.

I don't think our 914's can really achieve "downforce" with anything resembling a stock body; but if we can get closer to "zero lift" that makes a humongous difference.

My car so far has felt very stable at the speeds I've seen (we'll see what I have to say on Wednesday). My old blue 911 was a different story, with NO front or rear spoiler at all. That car felt like a plane at liftoff when it hit 110-120mph. Scary.
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Carrera916
post Jul 21 2003, 10:54 PM
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Hey Tim,

I noticed you have the IMSA front spoiler, not the 916 type, and your rear's are way to small to my opinion.

You know, the early Carrera 911 & Turbo has these rubber lips on the front and rear spoilers to compensate the drag/lift factors....if one of them is eliminated, the whole thing gets a bit screwy on the road. So what I'm seeing here, you got a big front spoiler now (compare to 916) and almost nothing in the rear, that's pretty screwy.

How about try this before you go bannanas in putting different spoilers on,.....add a strip of thick gauge aluminum with slot holes and secure it vertically to your current rear spoiler at the lowest setting of the slot holes. Work from there till you achive in what you want, then maybe find something to replace with the proper height/shape of your makeshift spoiler.

Kinda of a fun project, huh?

jerry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)
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Brad Roberts
post Jul 21 2003, 11:23 PM
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He currently has a 3 inch spoiler on the rear.. it actually works very well for 4cyl cars with his "Old School" IMSA air dam but not very well for cars that can generate 120+ straight-a-way speeds.

I like your idea about trying the "extensions".. but its hard to experiment with a race car. You dont have much track time to test new idea's and you cant exactly test it on the street (at least with Aero stuff its hard to test)


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SirAndy
post Jul 21 2003, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE(Carrera916 @ Jul 21 2003, 09:54 PM)
How about try this before you go bannanas in putting different spoilers on,.....add a strip of thick gauge aluminum with slot holes and secure it vertically to your current rear spoiler at the lowest setting of the slot holes. Work from there till you achive in what you want, then maybe find something to replace with the proper height/shape of your makeshift spoiler.

very good idea!

now who was it that told me the 916 style front spoiler had actually really good aerodynamics?
most people don't like the looks of them. (i would if mine was straight, argghhh) ...

i'm thinking about adding another lip underneath, as the 916 front spoiler does not go very low.

Andy
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