Distributors and Trigger Points (New Dizzy Installed), Troubleshooting Parts - CHT appears bad Options

[tvdinnerbythepool]

Agreed, that grease hadn't been grease for a while, haha!

[rjames]

MPS wouldn't likely be intermittent like that. ECU is usually fail or not, can't see how that would randomly affect idle RPM.

I'd bet it's sticky advance plates in the distributor. Clean and grease. They need to be able to easily move with centrifugal force. Be careful to keep the braided ground wire intact.

A 123 distributor would be a huge upgrade for you.

@rand Agree. Was not suggesting the problem was the MPS but was just pointing out that if would be hard to tune the MPS if their were issues elsewhere (like intermittently running rich).

Another vote for the 123 distributor. I replaced a stock distributer that was in good shape and still noticed a big improvement.

[Solocholo]

It’s the advance plates that the points mount to that get stuck in the wrong position and cause strange idle conditions.
There are two plates, with a ball bearing between them.
The old grease is more like glue now.

My Fuel injectors stoped firing? I pull the dizzy cleaned the contacts too, 2 started working, this dizzy is done? What do I replace it with? #123? Part?

[Solocholo]

It’s the advance plates that the points mount to that get stuck in the wrong position and cause strange idle conditions.
There are two plates, with a ball bearing between them.
The old grease is more like glue now.

My Fuel injectors stoped firing? I pull the dizzy cleaned the contacts too, 2 started working, this dizzy is done? What do I replace it with? #123? Part?

Dose anyone make the 2 points pice? Insert? Mouth pice?

[Solocholo]

It’s the advance plates that the points mount to that get stuck in the wrong position and cause strange idle conditions.
There are two plates, with a ball bearing between them.
The old grease is more like glue now.

My Fuel injectors stoped firing? I pull the dizzy cleaned the contacts too, 2 started working, this dizzy is done? What do I replace it with? #123? Part?

[Solocholo]

It’s the advance plates that the points mount to that get stuck in the wrong position and cause strange idle conditions.
There are two plates, with a ball bearing between them.
The old grease is more like glue now.

My Fuel injectors stoped firing? I pull the dizzy cleaned the contacts too, 2 started working, this dizzy is done? What do I replace it with? #123? Part?

[tvdinnerbythepool]

@Solocholo Dang! At least we aren't the only ones struggling with this!

[tvdinnerbythepool]

Ok guys, I bought the 123 Dizzy, Bluetooth and all the tricks.
Getting it installed as we speak and have a question. My curve requires a vacuum hose and I have forever been perplexed as to the 2 dizzy hoses. 1.7L 1970 Djet.

Small Black idle adjust side.

Thicker Green on opposite side.

One is advance and one is retard. Someone please school me as to which is which.

Thanks!

[bobboinski]

Black advance Green retard

[tvdinnerbythepool]

@bobboinski thx!

[tvdinnerbythepool]

@Solocholo it looks like the contacts for your FI triggers are partially broken off.( or maybe I am not able to see them clearly?). There are some members who you can source them (also can re-adjust to factory spec with special tool) but reading through the comments I received it was clear that swapping in a new modern dizzy is the way to go. Expensive...but what isn't these days. Will report back later today with how my engine is running. edit....mix up in shipping. Got the wrong one so now delayed until Tuesday.

[nordfisch]

Hi to all,
the 123 has a big disadvantage you should have to know, and some more issues:

The injection timing of the original set is optimized - injection is done during the stroke the cylinder gets air.
The 123 ignores this and injection is being synchronized with the ignition.
This is suboptimal and takes the main advantage of the D-Jetronic over the L-Jetronic away.

Users who report great benefits at the 123 won't have had a fully checked and correctly adjusted original distributor before.

The original distributor's life will be another 50 years and it will still be repairable then - what about the electronic components of the 123?

Regards
Norbert

[emerygt350]

Hmmm, I read that the original design set the injectors up in two banks. There are 4 cylinders and only two triggers. One cylinder would get it right before the intake stroke, the other fires as well but the charge just has to wait in the manifold till the intake opens.

"An additional input is required so that the ECU will synchronize the fuel injectors with the piston strokes. It therefore receives signals from a set of dual Trigger Points in the base of the ignition distributor. Each of the two points controls two injectors (in our four-cylinder motors, anyway)"

"Note that output to Injectors at pins 3, 4, and 5, 6 run through 6Ohm 5Watt Resistors. These serve to limit the current applied to Injectors (See also: Dropping Resistors) and effectively drop the voltage actually applied Injectors to 3V. They are then tied together internally to the transistor switches, therefore, Injectors fire in pairs! 1, 3 together, and 2, 4 together."

https://www.sw-em.com/bosch_d-jetronic_injection.htm

And other sources (Chilton's)

[tvdinnerbythepool]

Got the distributor installed, I opted for the Bluetooth one for the flexibility in curves...Starting to worry I shouldn't have done that.
It doesn't come with any pre-programmed curves and I am having a hard time finding the OEM curves for my distributor....any input?

My distributor was the 0 231 174 001 for a 1.7l Djet.

I have a call in to the 123 rep but am hoping someone on here may have the info I need.
Thanks!

[emerygt350]

Nothing you can download from the website?

Really interested to hear how it works out.

[bobboinski]

Does this help? Around post #102 #132.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...8153&st=120

[tvdinnerbythepool]

Hey Guys, Thanks for the response.
Long story short, I ended up with 2 Distributors - Bluetooth and a Non Bluetooth. I have opted to use the non bluetooth version. Setting A with Vacuum advance. I could not for the life of me get the thing to run with the bluetooth version with proper curves programmed.

Here is where I am at. I replaced the dizzy due to obvious wear and running issues but it did NOT solve my issues...
-Wildly varying A/F readings
-Inconsistent idle
-New issue noted during all my misery today....quite a bit of white smoke coming through the oil filler tube with the cap off. I was surprised by how much.

I think the motor may just be too damn worn out and need a rebuild. I plan on doing compression test tomorrow, but I think all the smoke coming out of the oil filler cap is already my answer.

I'm also not convinced I don't have an ECU issue that is causing such big swings in A/F ratios.

I'm tired and annoyed and another $600 deep with a shit running car....signing off for the night. Ugh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[r_towle]

Here is how I would troubleshoot this.
1) put original distributor back in, but clean and regrease the advance plates
2) disconnect all vacuum lines at the plenum, cover all holes with tape.
Leave just the MPS vacuum line attached.

You now have three things that control the idle A/F mixture.
MPs, tps, and CHT
TPS is not moving….so at idle it should have no major impact, but take the lid off and look fir damage.
CHT, measure it hot and cold….post findings for advice
MPs, you need to test to verify it holds a vacuum.

Rich

[r_towle]

If all those tests pass, you have and air leak or a fuel delivery fluctuation.

I remove the fuel hose to the cold start injector and route a new hose around that injector. Mine has been off for years, it’s fine without it.
That injector does leak

If fuel pressure is good then you are looking for an air leak.
The first suspect is the AAR
Then a cracked plenum
Then valve settings
This assumes you did the initial test of removing and blocking off all ports to the plenum.

[JamesM]

If all those tests pass, you have and air leak or a fuel delivery fluctuation.

I remove the fuel hose to the cold start injector and route a new hose around that injector. Mine has been off for years, it’s fine without it.
That injector does leak

If fuel pressure is good then you are looking for an air leak.
The first suspect is the AAR
Then a cracked plenum
Then valve settings
This assumes you did the initial test of removing and blocking off all ports to the plenum.

Everyone always forgets to mention/look at the PCV. Think I have had more d-jet issues caused by iffy or outright broken PCVs than any other component.