Under passenger seat wiring Options

[vitamin914]

Hi Everyone,

I've had my 1974 914 since September 2021. Lots of good stuff going on with it, Fat Performance 2.4 litre engine with 1000 miles on it, decent body and rust repair etc.

Slowly working through correcting minor stuff that needs attention. Most of it is correction of PO not so correctly done work. Mounting a horn in the front wheel well (dry weather only car?), epoxied in burnt out halogen headlight bulbs, wood screws holding headlight retaining rings... the usual not done so right stuff.

I pulled out the seats for reupholstering (thank you search function for how to do this) and came across this mess with cut wires and loose connectors etc under the passenger seat. At least someone could have put masking tape on cut and unplugged wires if electrical tape was too much to ask for... this looks like a recipe for blown fuses. Hmmm... more wood screws?

Before pulling the seat I used to sometimes hear a faint buzz when the key was in the ignition. I think there is a buzzer in here. I can tell the seat sensors were not connected for the seatbelt warning sign that does nothing (not an issue).

Mechanical stuff isn't scary but electrical problems are (can't see those electrons moving). I'm not sure what to search for to see what I am facing. I am guessing some of this may have been related to the engine change? Not sure what the heavy gauge yellow and yellow/red wire do that are permanently connected now. The car has a dashboard switched electric fuel pump and dashboard switched powered fan oil cooler. There also seems to be an non standard relay doing something that a missing relay used to do.

From what I understand the brown wires are ground so no real problem unless it touches a non ground wire. Any suggestions what I am looking at and what to search for?

[914Mels]

You have unearthed the infamous seatbelt interlock relay wiring. Most people bypass it as seen here. I'd clean up the wiring but leave it bypassed.

[NARP74]

There is a thread on here that discusses the bypass. I used an outside search engine to find it.

[ndfrigi]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=246814

[vitamin914]

Thank you so much... Knowing what that spaghetti does helps immensely.

I read some of the other discussion threads and I have to agree that it is not a good idea to cut the wires (JeffBowlsby). A great suggestion was to shrink tube the connectors to prevent shorts (Cap'n Krusty).

If there are cut wires here I know for sure I am going to find more elsewhere... sigh.

[robkammer]

I have the interior out for fuel lines, carpet and wiring housekeeping. I have found broken wires that fed the console lighting and the heater indicator light.
In addition to the ignition circuit it looks like you should leave the triple black to black, black red connector in place as it looks like it feeds the clock.

Another question: where can I find the best wiring diagram? My Haynes is very difficult to follow, especially with having to keep turning pages. I have a nice diagram from Prosperos but it is missing quite a few details. If we could only scan what Jeff has in the 914 section of his brain!
Rob

PS:If anyone looks under my passenger seat they must be really bored. Or a judge.

[lesorubcheek]

Another question: where can I find the best wiring diagram? My Haynes is very difficult to follow, especially with having to keep turning pages. I have a nice diagram from Prosperos but it is missing quite a few details. If we could only scan what Jeff has in the 914 section of his brain!
Rob

Here's what I did Rob. Downloaded scans and printed each page, then taped together so it's continuous. Makes it easier to trace connections.


Dan

[930cabman]

Eliminating the seat belt headache is the way to go and I am sure the good folks here will be of assistance. Not part of the wiring, how does the 2.4 go down the road? Carbs?

[SirAndy]

I never understood why people cut wires when there's a connector not even 3" away.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[robkammer]

Another question: where can I find the best wiring diagram? My Haynes is very difficult to follow, especially with having to keep turning pages. I have a nice diagram from Prosperos but it is missing quite a few details. If we could only scan what Jeff has in the 914 section of his brain!
Rob

Here's what I did Rob. Downloaded scans and printed each page, then taped together so it's continuous. Makes it easier to trace connections.


Dan

Thanks Dan: I did the same things a few months ago. I was staring at it again today and still find it useless. I look like Sherlock Holmes with my magnifying glass trying to find a clue, like where is the light by the heater lever in the console? We're lucky Jeff is good natured and will help if asked.
It seems that my car has been hacked by several over the decades, lots of black tape and poorly crimped splices. I'm just trying to make everything work as it should, like most others. Stay healthy!

[windforfun]

I never understood why people cut wires when there's a connector not even 3" away.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

Another question: where can I find the best wiring diagram? My Haynes is very difficult to follow, especially with having to keep turning pages. I have a nice diagram from Prosperos but it is missing quite a few details. If we could only scan what Jeff has in the 914 section of his brain!
Rob

Here's what I did Rob. Downloaded scans and printed each page, then taped together so it's continuous. Makes it easier to trace connections.


Dan

Thanks Dan: I did the same things a few months ago. I was staring at it again today and still find it useless.

Try as I might I CANNOT read a current flow diagram. I need to see where the wires run. I know its supposed to be easier, but it drives me nuts.

Zach

[lesorubcheek]

Thanks Dan: I did the same things a few months ago. I was staring at it again today and still find it useless. I look like Sherlock Holmes with my magnifying glass trying to find a clue, like where is the light by the heater lever in the console? We're lucky Jeff is good natured and will help if asked.
It seems that my car has been hacked by several over the decades, lots of black tape and poorly crimped splices. I'm just trying to make everything work as it should, like most others. Stay healthy!

I understand the frustration Rob, especially if the original wiring has been hacked by a PO. Like Zach said, there's something about things not actually being located as they are on the car that makes correlating to the diagram a little tricky. The terms used on the diagrams aren't always obvious either. For myself, it's the wire color that sorta magically ties it all together and it just kinda makes sense. This only works though if the wiring is all original.

Dan

[vitamin914]

Another question: where can I find the best wiring diagram? My Haynes is very difficult to follow, especially with having to keep turning pages. I have a nice diagram from Prosperos but it is missing quite a few details. If we could only scan what Jeff has in the 914 section of his brain!
Rob

Here's what I did Rob. Downloaded scans and printed each page, then taped together so it's continuous. Makes it easier to trace connections.


Dan

Dan,

Do you have a link where to download that wiring diagram? Or are these scanned from the Haynes book? I love the idea of making a big sheet. I keep finding more cut wires and it is driving me nuts.

[lesorubcheek]

Dan,

Do you have a link where to download that wiring diagram? Or are these scanned from the Haynes book? I love the idea of making a big sheet. I keep finding more cut wires and it is driving me nuts.

They're out there in a few different places. I thought about scanning the Haynes manual, but my pages are all dirty. Those pages were used alot back around 40 years ago. These were taken from the workshop manual at manualslib link. Used adobe to save each page as an image, then photoshop to clean up a bit before printing.

Dan

[vitamin914]

Dan,

Do you have a link where to download that wiring diagram? Or are these scanned from the Haynes book? I love the idea of making a big sheet. I keep finding more cut wires and it is driving me nuts.

They're out there in a few different places. I thought about scanning the Haynes manual, but my pages are all dirty. Those pages were used alot back around 40 years ago. These were taken from the workshop manual at manualslib link. Used adobe to save each page as an image, then photoshop to clean up a bit before printing.

Dan

Beautiful and thank you!
That factory electrical manual is exactly what I needed and the colored lines are a bonus. I wish the Haynes manuals were not printed on newspaper grade paper. Works more like a paper towel than a manual sometimes.

[vitamin914]

Eliminating the seat belt headache is the way to go and I am sure the good folks here will be of assistance. Not part of the wiring, how does the 2.4 go down the road? Carbs?

I agree the seat belt interlock has to be eliminated. Should be done cleanly too.
I really hate the cutting wires thing. Probably it is a case of being lazy or crude - like using wood screws instead of correct sheet metal screws. Or putting the horn in the directly in front of tire spray in the wheel well instead of behind the bumper (what was the logic of that?!).

I get reasons for changes, but keep it professional so that you are not creating a fuse blowing nightmare. Modifying things like the addition of an electric windshield sprayer and replacing the cigar lighter with its switch... stuff like that makes sense if you want improvements and don't want to keep it stock. But why did someone use green masking tape and twisted wire repairs instead of solder and shrink tube or electrical tape? - it never ends. My thinking is do it right or don't do it at all.

It is a fast car. I almost can't keep up with shifting gears that quickly. The 2.4 has dual Weber 44 carbs with a Holley electric fuel pump. More of a race engine than a street engine though.

I sent Fat the 2018 build sheets I have and asked about my engine. To quote Kim at Fat Performance... "I’m sorry but don’t have dyno records for this engine. A ballpark would be 223HP at 6000 RPM. And torque 210 at 5000 RPM.
This was based on another build for same size engine."

I can live with that...

[lesorubcheek]

Beautiful and thank you!
That factory electrical manual is exactly what I needed and the colored lines are a bonus. I wish the Haynes manuals were not printed on newspaper grade paper. Works more like a paper towel than a manual sometimes.

You're very welcome. Interesting about your Haynes paper quality. I checked mine, actually have 2, I'd forgot. The "working" copy is an original dated 1976. It's very well used, since that and the Clymer manual were the sole source of knowledge back in those days. The second "clean" copy is dated 1982. Both seem to have normal enough grade of paper. Haynes must have cheaped out as most things seem to have these days. I'd also forgotten the wiring schematics were black and white with only labels for color in the Haynes. Still better than nothing, but the colored wiring schematics make all the difference for quick recognition.

Dan

[ClayPerrine]

When I rebuilt the chassis harness on Betty's 74, I went through and stripped out all of the seat belt interlock wiring. It has leads that go to the door jam switches, and one that actually goes to the same fuse as the ignition. And from experience, you need to disconnect that one at the fuse block. Years ago, that wire fell out of the plug under the seat (I had already bypassed the interlock components) and was just sitting on the floor. Occasionally it would short out against the metal and the car would die. It would only happen randomly and only when cornering or hitting a hard bump.

Damn near drove me up a wall looking for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

The wire is a thin black one and it connects to fuse #8 on the fuse block.