What oil type for a type IV?, Synthetic or Dino? Options

[Jaiden]

The PO has put synthetic in the case of My Type IV since he got it.

The motor drips a little. Is synthetic to thin? Should I keep going synthetic?

[ericread]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

So, given these results from your own tests Raby, I'd still like to know why you wouldn't use Castrol in a lawnmower when your own test results state that it works well in an air cooled engine... unless there was something I missed in all that reading (which is entirely possible since my eyes started crossing after about 1/4 of the way thru) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think you may have the wrong person. You're probably looking for Jack, not Jake. Here's a link to "Jacks Small Engines"

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

Eric Read

[dbgriffith75]

I think you may have the wrong person. You're probably looking for Jack, not Jake. Here's a link to "Jacks Small Engines

No, I'm really not. Click the link I referenced in my last post Eric and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page. You're looking for the question "What kind of real-world field-testing have you done?" This is the first paragraph in the answer to that question:

With some select oils, on top of our standard additive package and total base number (TBN) analysis on all the motor oils we have tested, we also chosen several motor oils for field testing done by Jake Raby @ Aircooled Technology on a vw type 4 platform with a 2270cc engine producing 185 HP, complete with data acquisition. Testing consisted of approximately 800 mi on each oil, with a complete oil system purge (including external oil lines and oil cooler) and a new Mobil 1 oil filter to ensure the best level of filtration possible, followed by used oil analysis.

So unless that's a typo, I'm not looking for Jack.

[Todd Enlund]

But IMO, you can't just dismiss an 11 year track record, whether you have data to support it or not.

In reality, your 11 year track record means virtually nothing. It's too small of a sample. I've had 0 oil related issues in 20+ years of using Valvoline. How many people do you know that HAVE had an issue that could be tracked to what brand of oil they were using? Hell, I had no oil related issues in 4 years of dumping the cheapest crap in a paper can that I could find into my Pinto while I was in college.

Jake has numbers. I don't need to see them. That, combined with plenty of anecdotal accounts, is enough for me to be convinced that I'll be putting Brad Penn into my type IV when finish building it.

[Jake Raby]

Which brings me to my next point- how can you say that what I've used in the past means nothing?

Because the oil you used in the past is no longer available.

You can't just write off 11 years of good use just because you have "tens of thousands of dollars" to do the research.

Yes I can. Because that oil you used for 11 years is no longer the same oil that it was during the majority of those last 11 years. It doesn't have the same elemental composition and it doesn't smell or even look the same.

So what if it's not the same product that it was?

The fact that the oil changed without anyone knowing it means everything. Many people live by "I have used this brand XXXXX for 25 years with no issues" all the time, but brand XXXX isn't what it was thanks to new car manufacturers and the EPA. New cars have oxygen sensors that can be fouled by zinc in just a few miles, so oils that are rich in Zinc and Phosphorous were costing car manufacturers thousands of dollars in warranty claims when 500+ buck sensors went bad just because of the oil. New engines are SOHC/DOHC or they use roller lifters, all of these engine designs d not demand ZDDP in the oil to decrease wear like flat tappet cams and lifters do in our engines. This is why your observation that included "other" engines wasn't applicable to the content on this forum where our engines use conventional flat tappet cams and lifters, dependent upon ZDDP to maintain long life.

That doesn't change the fact that in the past three years, which you are telling me they've made a bunch of changes, that I STILL haven't had any oil related issues with it.

How do you know that you haven't had issues? The issues are accelerated wear of the engine components, not immediate failure! In my testing devices, UOA and field testing we have learned that the only time an engine will immediately fail due to oil selection is at start up with a new cam and lifter set that has to be "work hardened" and broken in. All other times the less than effective oil just depletes efficiency, accelerates wear and impedes fuel economy.

Excuse me if I don't have that kind of money at my disposal to throw away on testing different oils at any given time

Then why are you arguing with someone who has done this? I own an engine company and I have HAD to do this testing so I can mandate oils for my engines. My reputation is on the line every time an engine fires up and I can't blame a failure on engine oils. There is never an excuse or explanation for any failure in the eyes of my critics or those who pay for my components or engines.

-

like many people on this board I'm broke and just have to wait and see how it plays out from oil change to oil change.

Or you can listen to someone who develops these engines everyday and has 40 months of devotion on the subject. I have NOT A DAMN THING to gain from you using or not using any oil, because I don't sell oil!

I am going out of my way to share a portion of what we have learned with you here on these forums FOR FREE.

So let's see the hard data you claim to have Raby

Sure, I'll share it with you for a 250.00 contribution to our development fund.

-

I'd like to know exactly how Castrol failed so miserably that you wouldn't even use it in your lawnmower now.

we have used Castrol as a baseline and "control"for all oil testing since day one. This is because it was my favored oil for so many years and it was the oil we started experiencing accelerated wear issues with dating back to 2002. We have tested the Castrol on the R&D trip and in 7 other field tested engines ranging from the VW Type 1, Type 4 and even the Porsche M96 engine. This oil has been tested for torque and HP losses, efficiency, UOA and even forced component failures using the oil.

Now, it is no surprise that I can come off a bit abrasive at times here on the forums.. I take my work and the promotion, preservation and modification of these engines very seriously and go to extreme levels to gather the data and understanding necessary to achieve my goals.

I stand firmly on all my recommendations, mandates and information on the topic of engine oils that should be used in the Porsche 914/4 engine. I challenge any individuals or Companies to parallel our efforts on this topic.

I'll close by saying that I quit circulating data on this topic when people here on the net disrespected our work by challenging the results when they had zero data and were offering only opinion that wasn't substantiated by the single first particle of empirical data. If you want to argue with me at my level, you must first elevate yourself to above the ground floor, else it's like taking a Knife to a Gun fight.

People allow their past experiences to dictate their future, they become complacent and don't realize that everything in the world has changed except their mind....

The reason I would not run Castrol in my Lawnmower is because it runs flat tappet lifters and camshaft so the lack of ZDDP, Zinc and Phosphorous it has is inadequate for the engine design of my lawn mower-

[ericread]

[quote name='dbgriffith75' date='Nov 4 2008, 12:52 PM' post='1098486']
[quote]I think you may have the wrong person. You're probably looking for Jack, not Jake.

No, I'm really not. Click the link I referenced in my last post Eric and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page. You're looking for the question "What kind of real-world field-testing have you done?" This is the first paragraph in the answer to that question:

[/quote]

Oh come on now.... That was funny! You asked about lawn mowers and I gave you lawn mowers!!! Didn't you see my LOL3???

If you don't take a minute to laugh at life, I'm not going to waste my "A" material!!!

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Oil.cfm

Eric Read
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

[dbgriffith75]

Alright, you know what-

Obviously I can't explain my side of the story well enough for you, or anybody else, to understand what I'm saying. I'm just not that good with words obviously.

So here it is- you're right, I'm wrong. You fucking happy now? The fact of the matter is I have my points and they are right and I obviously can't make you or anybody else see that. I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL MY POINTS ARE RIGHT; BUT THEY'RE NOT ALL WRONG EITHER.

Have a good night.

[ericread]

Alright, you know what-

Obviously I can't explain my side of the story well enough for you, or anybody else, to understand what I'm saying. I'm just not that good with words obviously.

So here it is- you're right, I'm wrong. You fucking happy now? The fact of the matter is I have my points and they are right and I obviously can't make you or anybody else see that. I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL MY POINTS ARE RIGHT; BUT THEY'RE NOT ALL WRONG EITHER.

Have a good night.

Now I feel bad... I was just making light of the "lawnmower" remark, which in my opinion was originally somewhat of an exaggeration in the first place. And I do believe that you should use whatever oil that gives you confidence in your engine mechanicals. Your experience in using oil should never be dismissed, as you have had a great deal of success with it.

As for me, I use the Brad-Penn stuff because I believe in what I have seen in the posts and in the data that has been published.

For the last, and most important point; Many, many, many people would disagree with you that I am right. In fact, if you look at my historical posts, I probably ask as high a percentage of "stoopid" questions as anyone. I do really enjoy a good discussion, and you will see that my sense of "humor" seems to be shared by a rather small minority of members. I think my humor is hilarious!!! And I always have been told, I you can make one person laugh...

Anyway, your post are appreciated, and I apologize if I offended you in my remarks.

(Still, the lawnmower link WAS funny)

Eric Read
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

[bembry]

I noticed at this thread was quite old, and with the talk of oil being reformulated so many times in the past few years, I need to seek clarification:

I'm overseas and not sure I can get the Brad Penn oil, but I do have good access to Royal Purple. Is that still OK? If so, what weight is best for 914s in a moderate (Western Europe, but not driven in extreme weather) environment?

Please advise, and thanks in advance!

[ConeDodger]

Those of you referencing the great article in Panorama should be giving credit where credit is due. Look at his reference list, his major source is Charles Navarro. He is using the same data Charles and Jake developed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[PeeGreen 914]

To bring attension to those that like Castrol I would like to point out to people to stay away from it from my experience with it. While working at the shop I did for a few years, Japanese specialty shop, we had a few customers that swore by Castrol. We use Valvoline at the time. They would bring their own eggs for us to put it in and we did. Now Honda and Toyota engines are way different that a TIV but still, we ended up needing to do massive work on these cars due to foaming issues Castrol was causing. I had never had any experience outside of the shop with this oil and after dealing with this I never will.

On my 914 I will be using Penn, but I have been using Kenndal GT. I know it isn't what it used to be but it is still better than some (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Penn is the best for our cars hands down.

[dw914er]

my buddy uses Castrol for his 260 and 350 z's. He swears by it.

I use Kendall dino for the Porsche. My shop recommended it, and it does the job great. I don't have nearly the track record to prove it, but I just need the motor to last until I actually restore the car.

my acura is whatever the dealership puts in it. 140k so far, and its been fine.

[Dave_Darling]

Unfortunately, Kendall is no longer what it was when so many top Porsche specialists were recommending it. Heck, it isn't even green any more!!

The good news is that Brad Penn is what Kendall used to be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

--DD

[dw914er]

Unfortunately, Kendall is no longer what it was when so many top Porsche specialists were recommending it. Heck, it isn't even green any more!!

The good news is that Brad Penn is what Kendall used to be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

--DD

ahh. I get it from my shop. Thats what they use if they fill up the car. I have an old quart of Kendall.

Ill check into the Brad Penn

[SirAndy]

People allow their past experiences to dictate their future, they become complacent and don't realize that everything in the world has changed except their mind....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Very wise words for a young man like you!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy

[ericread]

We live in reference to past experience and not to future events, however inevitable. ~ H. G. Wells

Just for shits and giggles, I thought I'd add another quote.

Eric Read

[6freak]

We live in reference to past experience and not to future events, however inevitable. ~ H. G. Wells

Just for shits and giggles, I thought I'd add another quote.

Eric Read

10W-40 whats the W mean?

[So.Cal.914]

We live in reference to past experience and not to future events, however inevitable. ~ H. G. Wells

Just for shits and giggles, I thought I'd add another quote.

Eric Read

10W-40 whats the W mean?

Weight

[Richard Casto]

We live in reference to past experience and not to future events, however inevitable. ~ H. G. Wells

Just for shits and giggles, I thought I'd add another quote.

Eric Read

10W-40 whats the W mean?

Weight

Actually I believe that the "W" in 10W-40 means "Winter". In that this is the "cold start" or "Winter" viscosity.

Read the "Grade" section in this Wikipedia article...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

[6freak]

We live in reference to past experience and not to future events, however inevitable. ~ H. G. Wells

Just for shits and giggles, I thought I'd add another quote.

Eric Read

10W-40 whats the W mean?

Weight

Wrong ...just checking to see what people would say...Castro is correct its winter

[jc914]

This is a great thread. After reading it I am changing my oil tomorrow to get rid of the castrol GTX High millage oil. I am going to Use Royal purple (they sell it at my local pepboys store).

from my reading Brad penn in First Place and Royal Purple in second place.

Has anyone used this product. I found in at an aircooled forum

http://www.zddplus.com/