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> Does Anyone Have a Type 4 VW, VW 411/412
Highland
post Jun 28 2022, 05:21 PM
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Just wondering if anyone drives a VW Type 4. I never see them mentioned on this site.

Just curious how hard it is to get parts e.g. seals, seat covers, headliners, etc? Does the transmission share engagement teeth and sncyros with our 914's?

Maybe it's me, but I can't find 411/412 parts on common VW parts store like bus depot, CIP1, etc.
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GregAmy
post Jun 28 2022, 05:45 PM
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411/412 were very rare even in the 1980s when I started driving. I know, I went looking for one (ended up with a Type 3 Squareback).

914 were plentiful in comparison.
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CCE
post Jun 28 2022, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE(Highland @ Jun 28 2022, 06:21 PM) *

Just wondering if anyone drives a VW Type 4. I never see them mentioned on this site.

Just curious how hard it is to get parts e.g. seals, seat covers, headliners, etc? Does the transmission share engagement teeth and sncyros with our 914's?

Maybe it's me, but I can't find 411/412 parts on common VW parts store like bus depot, CIP1, etc.


No problem getting the parts, the issue is how to fund the purchase!

Look here: https://lnengineering.com/type-4-store.html?limit=all

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wonkipop
post Jun 28 2022, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE(Highland @ Jun 28 2022, 05:21 PM) *

Just wondering if anyone drives a VW Type 4. I never see them mentioned on this site.

Just curious how hard it is to get parts e.g. seals, seat covers, headliners, etc? Does the transmission share engagement teeth and sncyros with our 914's?

Maybe it's me, but I can't find 411/412 parts on common VW parts store like bus depot, CIP1, etc.


i believe they are a nightmare to get a lot of the parts for.

a good place to look might be south africa believe it or not.
there were a lot of 411 and 412s there - one of the few places on earth the car was a relative success. like australia the climate was kind to the cars (at least the exterior metal anyway). they never sold them in australia so we never see them here.
just a few rare examples that were assessment cars and german embassy vehicles.
and even those i never see at vw events anymore.

ps
i always liked the 412 wagon. i used to own a type 3 wagon and the 412 takes the packaging to another level!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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jim_hoyland
post Jun 28 2022, 06:09 PM
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IIRC, Mike D has one.
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StarBear
post Jun 28 2022, 06:22 PM
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Almost bought a used 412 when I wanted to semi-retire driving the 914 on a daily basis. The gasoline-fueled heater scared the h#** out of me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) Got a new Jetta instead. 1983, I think.
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wonkipop
post Jun 28 2022, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Jun 28 2022, 06:22 PM) *

Almost bought a used 412 when I wanted to semi-retire driving the 914 on a daily basis. The gasoline-fueled heater scared the h#** out of me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) Got a new Jetta instead. 1983, I think.


yeah, its a scary thought having a head on crash with the heater going full bore.
it was in the frunk wasn't it!!!!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
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fixer34
post Jun 28 2022, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE(Highland @ Jun 28 2022, 06:21 PM) *

Just wondering if anyone drives a VW Type 4. I never see them mentioned on this site.

Just curious how hard it is to get parts e.g. seals, seat covers, headliners, etc? Does the transmission share engagement teeth and sncyros with our 914's?

Maybe it's me, but I can't find 411/412 parts on common VW parts store like bus depot, CIP1, etc.

Long ago and far away I had a 411 wagon. It was an automatic with an injected 1700. I seem to recall the ones sold in the US were like that, It you wanted the 1800cc and standard trans, it had to be brought over from Europe.
Had a number of the type 3 Squarebacks, tried the 411 to get a little more room. Wasn't crazy about the automatic...
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StarBear
post Jun 28 2022, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Jun 28 2022, 08:36 PM) *

QUOTE(StarBear @ Jun 28 2022, 06:22 PM) *

Almost bought a used 412 when I wanted to semi-retire driving the 914 on a daily basis. The gasoline-fueled heater scared the h#** out of me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) Got a new Jetta instead. 1983, I think.


yeah, its a scary thought having a head on crash with the heater going full bore.
it was in the frunk wasn't it!!!!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

Don’t recall. Along one of the sides. Scary anywhere.
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9146C
post Jun 29 2022, 06:21 AM
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QUOTE
QUOTE(wonkipop @ Jun 28 2022, 08:36 PM)

QUOTE(StarBear @ Jun 28 2022, 06:22 PM)

Almost bought a used 412 when I wanted to semi-retire driving the 914 on a daily basis. The gasoline-fueled heater scared the h#** out of me. Got a new Jetta instead. 1983, I think.


yeah, its a scary thought having a head on crash with the heater going full bore.
it was in the frunk wasn't it!!!!!!!!

Don’t recall. Along one of the sides. Scary anywhere.


My first car was a 1971 411 Wagon with the 1.7 manual trans and a gas heater. The heater was located close to the cowl and parallel to it. It worked like a dream...instant heat...thermostat control was winding the windows up and down!

Took that car up to the mountains skiing many, many times on my A/S Michelins...never got stuck in the snow. It was awesome.

In the summer, it was a great car to take camping...with dry accomodations in the back!

Even in the early 80's, parts were difficult to find. Overall, I thought it was a great car...lots of room with that additional huge frunk. The only thing I didn't like about that car was the hydraulic clutch set-up...the slave cylinder was prone to leaking in the winter months.

More than 40 years on, I still think about that car!
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porschetub
post Jun 29 2022, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE(Highland @ Jun 29 2022, 11:21 AM) *

Just wondering if anyone drives a VW Type 4. I never see them mentioned on this site.

Just curious how hard it is to get parts e.g. seals, seat covers, headliners, etc? Does the transmission share engagement teeth and sncyros with our 914's?

Maybe it's me, but I can't find 411/412 parts on common VW parts store like bus depot, CIP1, etc.


These cars were in my country in the 80's ,apparently they drove and handled well but according to an old dutch mechanic I talked to the VW service departments weren't that fussed with them due to them overheating ,he said many motors failed and were replaced by the factory under warranty,he mentioned many he came across had experienced head failures.
I like the wagons ,the fastback was from most angles an odd looking car IMO.
Gearboxs ? the manual was unique to these cars,not sure what the internals were,most like some crossover to the beetle IRS box (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .
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davep
post Jun 29 2022, 05:41 PM
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We had a 411 sedan 4 speed manual some 30 years ago. A very solid car. A second gas heater was sandwiched over the transmission. Great heat, but you could watch the gas guage drop. It really scooted when I transplanted a 914 2.0 engine. Other than a few nuts, the trans is completely different.
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wonkipop
post Jun 29 2022, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE(porschetub @ Jun 29 2022, 04:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Highland @ Jun 29 2022, 11:21 AM) *

Just wondering if anyone drives a VW Type 4. I never see them mentioned on this site.

Just curious how hard it is to get parts e.g. seals, seat covers, headliners, etc? Does the transmission share engagement teeth and sncyros with our 914's?

Maybe it's me, but I can't find 411/412 parts on common VW parts store like bus depot, CIP1, etc.


These cars were in my country in the 80's ,apparently they drove and handled well but according to an old dutch mechanic I talked to the VW service departments weren't that fussed with them due to them overheating ,he said many motors failed and were replaced by the factory under warranty,he mentioned many he came across had experienced head failures.
I like the wagons ,the fastback was from most angles an odd looking car IMO.
Gearboxs ? the manual was unique to these cars,not sure what the internals were,most like some crossover to the beetle IRS box (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .


yes - funny about new zealand.
a bloke in new zealand was a real enthusiast of 411/412s.
he wrote a book which i have on my shelves i got a fair while back.
Volkswagens of the World. Simon Glen.

interesting story about overheating type 4s.
we tended to have the opposite experience in australia.
the type 4 engine was only in kombi buses but it ran very well in the hot conditions here and the cooling system was generally regarded as far superior to the type 3 pancake engine.
the type 3 engine certainly did overheat.
i had to ease off in summer with mine out on the highway and stick to 50mph on aussie summer days. flog them to 60 on a hot day and drive them long enough and they would burn valves.
the flaw was in the location of the oil cooler which was basically an adaption of the beetle. they just laid the oil cooler flat instead of vertical and received cooling air that had already passed over the front cylinder. from memory it was always cylinder #3 that gave the problem. even with care the pancake motors never lasted as long as the upright beetle engines. perhaps the dutch mechanic was talking about that engine which was in the type 3 cars rather than the type 4 engine?

there were plenty of type 3s down our way in australia and probably new zealand in the 60s and 70s?
they were locally manufactured at the australian plant in clayton in melbourne.

VW rejected the 411/412 for sale in australia. the car was unable to compete with japanese imports that were coming in to their own at the time. VW tried to stay in the market with the golf and the passat, which i think continued to be locally assembled but the japanese were just too good. all over by the very early 80s and VW left the market down here. as did just about every other european brand.
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SKL1
post Jun 29 2022, 08:54 PM
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Interesting thread- can't remember the last time I actually saw one in the flesh. A local coffee shop here has a Porsche C&C each month and also one for VW's. Only been to the VW once but don't remember a 411 0r 412. Fair number of type 3's.
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porschetub
post Jun 30 2022, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Jun 30 2022, 02:38 PM) *

QUOTE(porschetub @ Jun 29 2022, 04:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Highland @ Jun 29 2022, 11:21 AM) *

Just wondering if anyone drives a VW Type 4. I never see them mentioned on this site.

Just curious how hard it is to get parts e.g. seals, seat covers, headliners, etc? Does the transmission share engagement teeth and sncyros with our 914's?

Maybe it's me, but I can't find 411/412 parts on common VW parts store like bus depot, CIP1, etc.


These cars were in my country in the 80's ,apparently they drove and handled well but according to an old dutch mechanic I talked to the VW service departments weren't that fussed with them due to them overheating ,he said many motors failed and were replaced by the factory under warranty,he mentioned many he came across had experienced head failures.
I like the wagons ,the fastback was from most angles an odd looking car IMO.
Gearboxs ? the manual was unique to these cars,not sure what the internals were,most like some crossover to the beetle IRS box (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .


yes - funny about new zealand.
a bloke in new zealand was a real enthusiast of 411/412s.
he wrote a book which i have on my shelves i got a fair while back.
Volkswagens of the World. Simon Glen.

interesting story about overheating type 4s.
we tended to have the opposite experience in australia.
the type 4 engine was only in kombi buses but it ran very well in the hot conditions here and the cooling system was generally regarded as far superior to the type 3 pancake engine.
the type 3 engine certainly did overheat.
i had to ease off in summer with mine out on the highway and stick to 50mph on aussie summer days. flog them to 60 on a hot day and drive them long enough and they would burn valves.
the flaw was in the location of the oil cooler which was basically an adaption of the beetle. they just laid the oil cooler flat instead of vertical and received cooling air that had already passed over the front cylinder. from memory it was always cylinder #3 that gave the problem. even with care the pancake motors never lasted as long as the upright beetle engines. perhaps the dutch mechanic was talking about that engine which was in the type 3 cars rather than the type 4 engine?

there were plenty of type 3s down our way in australia and probably new zealand in the 60s and 70s?
they were locally manufactured at the australian plant in clayton in melbourne.

VW rejected the 411/412 for sale in australia. the car was unable to compete with japanese imports that were coming in to their own at the time. VW tried to stay in the market with the golf and the passat, which i think continued to be locally assembled but the japanese were just too good. all over by the very early 80s and VW left the market down here. as did just about every other european brand.


It wasn't the fault of the T4 engine as such it was the strange way they recieved cooling air in 411/412 which wasn't unlike the T3,in the bus they got a lot more air,my own t4 powered bus I had when I lived in australia give no issues and it was a heavy semi camper and loaded to the brim when we traveled from brisbane to WA.
VW addressed this with the T3 by fitting what were called "cool tins" for the lower cylinders so they must have known something,this design most likely was taken off the T4 motor which already had them.
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wonkipop
post Jun 30 2022, 06:52 PM
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@porschetub

yeah you could be right about 411/412 ducting.
but maybe not so much the ducting as the cooling inlet louvre location?

the notchback type 3 of which there is a great abundance of here (or was at one time) had the cooling grille inlet spread across the top of the panel between the rear screen and the edge of the engine (rear trunk) lid. apparently this was the ideal place aerodynamically for pulling the air in.

but the type 3 fast backs had the louvres on the rear guards down the flanks identical to the squarebacks. story i got told was the sloping fast back shape meant that intake louvres somewhere on the top surface of the engine lid or near rear window would not work. the angle was not right. it worked on a beetle but not a type 3 which had a less steep rake.

the rest of the internal bodywork ducting into the fan on all three type 3 models was identical.

only the variant (squareback) 411s and 412s had intake louvres along the flanks - the sedan and fastback versions did have it on the engine lid which sloped in a way that was not unlike the fast back type 3s. maybe a little less gentle than the type 3 but certainly not as steep as the beetle. maybe vw screwed up on that one? possibly the dutch mechanic might have been talking about that? the 411/412 variant also had bodywork ducting and fan boot almost identical to type 3s but the sedan and fastback were very different. had some kind of big engine bay grilled duct inside the compartment and air flowed into that via the decklid. might have been a mess up for hotter climates but ok in europe?

nevertheless the type 3 was a flawed engine in inherent cooling terms.
it might have worked ok in europe but it was marginal in aus in high summer or out in the hotter parts of country australia.
they all had cool tins on them down here from early on. might have even been invented by VW australia or VW south africa? who knows. didn't help them here.

the basic problem was that oil cooler. archilles heel. the rest of the type 3 was great.
with superb packaging. but boy you had to baby them in summer. change the oil, keep it fresh and really nurse them on a hot day. and even with all that they still gave up the ghost in half the time of a beetle engine.

EDIT
at least they finally fixed that idiocy with the oil cooler on the type 4 engine.
it was smart to finally give it a dedicated feed off the fan and blow that out the bottom without going anywhere near the cylinders. took them enough time to get that right.
the type 3 should have got the type 4 motor instead of the shorcut version it got.
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rhodyguy
post Jul 2 2022, 12:29 PM
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Best looking one I've ever seen was a 2 door, 4 speed, like a Irish Green/saddle interior, and a factory sunroof. In the 70s. I think today with those features it would be a rare ride.
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jjs3rd914
post Jul 29 2022, 05:07 AM
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I had one for many years as a daily driver and winter car living in the northeast. Was a 73 with automatic wagon. Rebuilt both the auto tranny and engine and ran just great. Put in an aftermarket sunroof.

Best concept ever as big front trunk, and rear station wagon space. Only issue was if temperature got around 0F, was impossible to start, even using starter fluid. Wanted to swap to carbs, but it rusted faster than I could source the carbs. Sadly sold it.

There are generally a few for sale on the samba, but mostly not worth the price as are as bad as the one I got rid of.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/cat.php?id=11


Type 3 squarebacks are nice, but are getting expensive and are not the same as the T4. would love to have another. But would want the 4 speed and are very few that made it to the US. Understand the 4 speed wan not the same as the type 1 and 3 trannys. Much beefier and probably same as was in the later type 2 busses with the type 4 engine.

jjs3rd914


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jdamiano
post Jul 29 2022, 07:02 AM
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My buddy Nathan has one he is trying to get road worthy to sell. You can see it on his YouTube channel Barefoot Garage. I have been helping him wrench on it. Parts are very tough to find. He has had to do lots of cross referencing. I don’t think it would even be possible to do any type true restoration on.
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volksaddict
post Jul 29 2022, 08:21 AM
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My first car was a 412, I was 12 years old, way too young to drive, and I gave $25 and a parakeet for it. It had been totaled and the motor was removed for a dune buggy. It never did run and went to a junkyard later (for a profit) but taught me a lot about vw's and bodywork, and to not get your finger between torn metalwork and a bfh.
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