27,000 mile original '74 on BaT, This will be interesting Options

[Superhawk996]

its a good car in a lot of respects, but it ain't no 27k miler.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[FlacaProductions]

This may be the previous listing:
http://classiccardb.com/porsche/510433-197...e-survivor.html

[Superhawk996]

This may be the previous listing:
http://classiccardb.com/porsche/510433-197...e-survivor.html

Amazing detective work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

Orientation of the two screws I can see in the gauge bezel are exactly the same. the one on the far right as a vertical cross and the one to the upper left of the gauge as an X

That's simply crazy to me to think that someone has their hands on a 914 as nice as this and only drove it 600 miles or so before trying to flip it? What a shame.

[Van B]

@wonkipop I definitely thing you’re spot on with all your assessments. Back to the vac hose observations for a minute. I know mine is an original mileage car (53k) thanks to receipts. And what tricked me there was that all the hoses still had great color but were hard as a rock, dry, and cracked inside. So, it takes a lot of miles and heat to make hoses fade that bad.

The only way I could be convinced that the miles are legit here is with a full records review. Otherwise, this is a $20k car and not a dollar more.

[914Next]

This may be the previous listing:
http://classiccardb.com/porsche/510433-197...e-survivor.html

Yup, that’s the car. Same defect or damage on the passenger seat also. So why didn’t he say that he added the side striped. And Vin matches too. So, he says there were dents in the trunk in the first listing but doesn’t say that the trunk was repaired/repainted. In fact only mentions two spots that were repainted. Wonder if that thick paint reading on the trunk is due to repair.

[FlacaProductions]

Searching the VIN is how I found the previous listing. The internet rarely forgets.

[wonkipop]

other strange things are drive shafts still have white painted stamped numbers on them. (i didn't know about those numbers on driveshafts until i saw these photos, long gone on mine). those driveshafts have not seen over 100K miles. much less.

I'd disagree on the 1/2 shafts. Those shafts have some serious mileage on them given the amount of build up on oil dust build up on the boots, oil leakage around the trans, etc.

Looks to me like the driver side shaft was disconnected at the trans and then vehicle rolled around tearing up the the paint on the shaft as the CV shaft hit the trailing arm. A nick in the paint from road debris or paint flaw doesn't lead to a rust ring like that.

This sort of stuff just isn't consistent with 28K original miles or even having sat for 30 years.

I bought a set of used 914/6 shafts and CV's not long ago, they weren't advertised as sub 27K miles and they were in far better shape than these are.

Hopefully someone buys at the right price and doesn't buy into the 28K mile hype which for me, means I can't trust anything the seller has to say. This whole BAT "shows 28k miles" stuff is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) knowing full well that they haven't lied to a degree that can be contested in a court of law but knowing full well that the car really isn't a 28K original miles but is really 128K.

The rest of the car speaks for itself and anyone should be proud of a car like that even if it has 128K miles. But lets stop the nonsense of pretending that cars like these are low mileage. If the mileage was documented from day one and consistent to 2022, that would be one thing. That is not what is being offered here.

yes - its interesting looking at the transmission photos.
i was trying to see if you determine if the trans had been separated from the engine since coming out of storage. it does not look like it. bolts look untouched?
new owner claims to have put minimal mileage on since recommissioning.
i would expect you to still tell if the bolts had been undone.
same with the starter. looks frozen in time all around it longer than 5 years ago.

if the tranny has not been apart from the engine in recommissioning then the clutch hasn't been touched.

which i believe is flat out an impossibility with a genuine 27 k mile car that went into storage in 1985 - unless the clutch was replaced before then with the usual kind of clutch we all see these days with a spring clutch plate. these babies had those diabolical rubber core clutches in them. - they do not survive 30 years of static storage.

you are probably right about the drive shafts @Superhawk996 .
i was just surprised to still see the white painted numbers on them.
which were always originally there.
looking back through the 1.8 stuff i had accumulated for engine research i found one other car on which they were still visible. a painted #6 or #9.
i've looked at mine and i can just see a trace of white flecks on one of the shafts but not legible.

i can't really work this blue car out.

you can find images of the weird original clutch throughout the factory manual.
its even drawn correctly in the PET catalogue.
the 6s originally had a version of the same creation.
my mechanic's eyes popped out his head when we pulled one out my car 2.5 years ago.
but they don't last a long time in static storage. all the rubber in the core of the clutch plate perishes. result = bang as soon as you start driving it again.
but who knows. maybe the clutch is still in there, but just waiting to go bang.

[wonkipop]

This may be the previous listing:
http://classiccardb.com/porsche/510433-197...e-survivor.html

nice work.

so it sounds like the guy selling it now got it off the guy in this ad?

were you able to date that previous ad back in time?

EDIT
that ad explains the fresh paint/painted bolts i could see in the front trunk up under the cowl near the fuel tank/blower. mouse nest damage.
ad describes battery area rust. could have been similar to mine maybe back in 89.
surface rust which i got to work on straight away back then and dealt with before it ate through and opened the door to hell? it might be ok in that area.
the spatter still on the engine tin in that area looks similar to mine.

[wonkipop]

@wonkipop I definitely thing you’re spot on with all your assessments. Back to the vac hose observations for a minute. I know mine is an original mileage car (53k) thanks to receipts. And what tricked me there was that all the hoses still had great color but were hard as a rock, dry, and cracked inside. So, it takes a lot of miles and heat to make hoses fade that bad.

The only way I could be convinced that the miles are legit here is with a full records review. Otherwise, this is a $20k car and not a dollar more.

yes re the hoses.

though there is one anomaly which is the PCV valve hose.
its in remarkable condition.
and you can't buy those hoses for love or money. preformed to shape etc.
unless the guy selling it somehow dug one up from somewhere NOS?

again i can't work it out.
some things on it are farked and other things are strangely in remarkable condition.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

PS - i like it better with the star steelies on it than the fuchs as it is in the older ad. but then again i am an aussie ijit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
and now dr. 914 has a legit reason for saying take the side stripes off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[wonkipop]

i'm going for broken odo.

here is the mileage in 77, car is three years old.
the service guy's 7s are hard to distinguish from 9s but with a bit of study its clear.
the 7s have weird little flick.

here is the odo from second ad that @FLacaProductions found.



odo broke sometime shortly after 77 when it was 20070.
(probably in 78 if my maths is right).
did about 7,000 (on the odo only) more since the service stamp until that second ad shows speedo (as was a few years ago when pulled out of storage).
why? too co-incidental its stayed at 20,000 range since 77 to 85.
or turned over almost exactly 100,000 more since 77 to 85.

if the original owner kept up the pattern of driving until 1985.
(think going into storage in 85 is believable).
its a 70-80 k mile car.
that makes sense to me looking at it.
owner wasn't putting huge miles on it. about 7000 a year.
for it to be a 120K mile car the original owner would have had to have changed his pattern of driving from 7K miles a year to double that from 77 to 85.
he could have. but. looking at the car whoever first owned it did look after it.
and for some reason it went off the road.
that would be in the personal history of the first owner.

present seller has had odo fixed and its running again?

based on a really great 74 1.8, that had 44k on it and looked real (from about 6 years ago - ravenna green car, you can still find it on BAT at bottom of archive) that got $30K.
admittedly values have gone up.
somewhere between 30K and 50K.
if it was me and it ain't, i'd go 30K if it was any good.
but you know, the world has gone insane.

[Lockwodo]

I'm going for it, $71K.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-porsche-914-59/

Why would BaT advertise this as a "28k-Mile 1974 Porsche 914" without verifying the mileage?

[windforfun]

Just another horse trader. At least with a horse you can check his (her) teeth.

[wonkipop]

I'm going for it, $71K.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-porsche-914-59/

Why would BaT advertise this as a "28k-Mile 1974 Porsche 914" without verifying the mileage?

i'd have to look at the wording on the ad.
sometimes they use language that says indicated mileage etc.

anyway we all know with a car this old - we are talking half a century, its up to the buyer to arm himself or herself.

its still a very original car. i would not take away from that.

i don't know if you saw the little old ladies car from florida last year (or was it the year before, losing track of time due to covid dicktator nonsense down here for last few years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) - that was in a league above this one that made it quite believable.
that one was definitely collector material and it was a really humble 1.7 in secretary spec.
i think it pulled 70K.
which is what @Big Len is speculating at?

i wouldn't plump down those kind of dollars.
but then again it is 2022 and not 1989 any more.
and for some inexplicable reason the 914 seems to have become mainstream desirable all of a sudden. go figure.

EDIT
i read the ad again.
the copy just says "shows 27K miles).
i guess they are not lying. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
admittedly the banner headline is a bit more sensationalist.
BAT don't have any way to verify it?
its up to the owner to throw down all the records.
interesting that he has not included the owners manual in the photos.
it seems to have one, it looks like its lying on the floor of the car in the older ad that flaca productions found. maybe there are no stamps in there and its of no use.
i mean these things were not ferraris back in the day where everyone kept meticulous records. they were just "everyman" sports cars.

[wonkipop]

Just another horse trader. At least with a horse you can check his (her) teeth.

a harsh (but semi reasonable) character assessment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


he is a weekend work flipper?
read BAT comments.
down near the bottom someone who seems to know him comes in and makes a comment about how its not quite up to his usual standards (or words to that effect).
thats how i read it anyway.

he has some nice rigs in the background in his garage by the looks of it.
american iron.

[Superhawk996]

I'm going for it, $71K.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-porsche-914-59/

Why would BaT advertise this as a "28k-Mile 1974 Porsche 914" without verifying the mileage?

Because they (BAT and the seller) have no integrity. BAT has been bought by Hearst Automotive Group in 2020 and it is nothing more than a cash machine to a corporate conglomerate.

BAT has no direct liability for what a seller might claim. BAT verifys nothing as is clear from the photos.

I copied the quote directly from the BAT listing. Odo "shows 28k miles" - that is true. What isn't true is that isn't the actual mileage as is clear from the photos and the detective work others have been doing on this car.

From my prior post:
This whole BAT "shows 28k miles" stuff is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) knowing full well that they haven't lied to a degree that can be contested in a court of law but knowing full well that the car really isn't a 28K original miles but is really 128K.

While BAT is a fun site to look at and potentially a means to connect enthusiast sellers -- it is still Buyer Beware just like Craigslist, EBay, or any other listing medium.

[wonkipop]

I'm going for it, $71K.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-porsche-914-59/

Why would BaT advertise this as a "28k-Mile 1974 Porsche 914" without verifying the mileage?

Because they (BAT and the seller) have no integrity. BAT has been bought by Hearst Automotive Group in 2020 and it is nothing more than a cash machine to a corporate conglomerate.

BAT has no direct liability for what a seller might claim. BAT verifys nothing as is clear from the photos.

I copied the quote directly from the BAT listing. Odo "shows 28k miles" - that is true. What isn't true is that isn't the actual mileage as is clear from the photos and the detective work others have been doing on this car.

From my prior post:
This whole BAT "shows 28k miles" stuff is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) knowing full well that they haven't lied to a degree that can be contested in a court of law but knowing full well that the car really isn't a 28K original miles but is really 128K.

While BAT is a fun site to look at and potentially a means to connect enthusiast sellers -- it is still Buyer Beware just like Craigslist, EBay, or any other listing medium.

agree 100% @Superhawk996

if you have certifiable 27,000 m car not merely an alleged one you would not be selling on BAT. it would be sotherby's or similar handling the sales job.

the wording on mileage would be unambiguous.

see this one.
haggerty's use the wording "actual miles".
presumably that was 100% supportable with documentation.

case in point. the blue 1.7 owned by the florida retiree.
pulled $80 K +.
just under 14,000 miles.
sort of unbelievable at first. thats 300 miles per year over her 48 years of ownership.
but entirely possible.
then once you look over the photos of the car, yep.....it sure looked for real.

i saw a very early VW fastback in perth 30 years ago. similar story.
you can tell the minute you walk up to them. then they just get better the more you look at.

https://insider.hagerty.com/car/1973-porsche-914-1-7/

[930cabman]

Possible but not probable.

As always: buyer beware

[wonkipop]

another web entry on it from 19.
scroll down comments to very last.
seems it was on ebay - listed at / or got to 16K and didn't sell?
probably same owner listing it again?


https://barnfinds.com/mid-engine-targa-1974-porsche-914/

[Van B]

Whoever “Oldalfapvguy” is must not be reading this thread. He’s bidding it up and up…

[wonkipop]

Whoever “Oldalfapvguy” is must not be reading this thread. He’s bidding it up and up…

he has an alfa i would say.
explains stoopidity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

they are made of rust instead of steel.
914 would just seem like minor oxidation issues.
+ he says he is old, so is desperate for one last chance to drive a real car? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

anything by FIAT group even rusted out in australia. thats saying something when a car rusts out here.

EDIT
don't get me started on italian cars.
great engines. stops there.
alfasuds and 33s split across the front inner guards from the shock towers after 5 years on the road. even legendary lancia fulvias tear themselves apart in the same place. takes a bit longer. dig into a 105. it will all be bog. with newspaper backing and chicken wire. don't even go near a lancia fulvia zagato - its one giant sacrificial anode dissolving itself. making bespoke reproduction panels for italian sports cars constitutes a significant percentage of the UK GDP.

or look at italians in F!. right now they are blowing up a fantastic driver in leclerc and screwing around with carlos sainz. having already done over vettel and alonso.
only schumacher suceeded and nicki lauder. by being german and turning the team german (with a bit of english ruthlessness). what a bunch. good coffee but.