WE HAVE BEEN INSULTED!, On Youtube! |
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WE HAVE BEEN INSULTED!, On Youtube! |
bbrock |
Sep 20 2022, 12:37 PM
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#81
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Let’s face it the average Porsche buyer isn’t buying one for the engineering and driving dynamics any more than your average BWW buyer was buying the ultimate driving machine. It is for the lifestyle brand image. Plain and simple. Well let's be fair. Porsche has unapologetically been marketing their brand as a statement of success so no surprise about who is buying them. Let's also acknowledge that they still make some marvelously engineered machines even if I personally dislike a lot of model offerings (no Porsche should have four doors). Frankly, I think most cars made these days are fugly as hell. That includes the new corvette. Sorry if I offend, but it looks like a transformer toy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) That's just my opinion though. As for the Pano author. She is not the average Porsche customer. She's an editor for Motor Trend and a Rally racer. Presumably a gear head who should be held to a higher education standard when it comes to cars, but I suppose the writing gig pays just as much for repeating false tropes as it does for original thought. |
Jonathan Livesay |
Sep 20 2022, 03:16 PM
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#82
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 740 Joined: 13-March 10 From: La Canada CA Member No.: 11,461 Region Association: None |
He kept promising "gut punches" but all I heard was comments that made me go "what an idiot".
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wonkipop |
Sep 20 2022, 04:48 PM
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#83
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,159 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
every time i hear or read a comment like that i think about all the parts of modern Porsche not made by porsche or made in Germany or US, and not even assembled in the main facilities in Germany, including the Boxsters in Finland , and we could go on and on on how stupid that is. Really it should have been caught by editor, but if this it now the standard at PANO , and their just employing Hack-for-hire journalists , yep im ready to cancel mine as well, but they need to know its not just a small slight and you are talking about a car that basically saved that company from extinction!, sold 118,000 cars. i guess if he reads these comments and if more current members that are now buying and paying $100k for a 914 say something maybe we see an editor note in the next months magazine and just maybe she's done writing for PANO. I think an article that walks through just how much VW or Porsche is in a 914/4 would be quite interesting. We already know that 100% of the design was Porsche, including the Type IV engine. That is even before Hans Mezger tweaked it for the 2.0L. VWs design contributions were to cut costs and cheapen the car like use rear drum brakes instead of disc which Porsche vetoed. The parts count would be quite interesting. Mostly it is just switches, light fixtures, and seat belts outside the Porsche-designed VW engine. Even the instrument cluster and ventilation controls are Porsche. I don't know how you categorize brakes and steering rack which have VW part numbers but are from the same OEM with identical design and function to Porsche counterparts. And IIRC, there are a couple VW parts that were shared with the 356. Once you cataloged all the parts that are shared with other Porsche models along with parts unique to the 914 with 914.xxx part numbers, I doubt you'd have even 20% VW content. Nothing against VW parts at all, but the fact is that I don't think the 914 borrowed from the VW parts bin nearly as much as the media has led people to believe from the time the model was first introduced. Better yet, somebody should pull all the VW parts out of a 914/4 and weigh them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) well - if you count the body as VW (i think karmann was owned by VW at that point) you could probably put the porsche parts in your coat pocket and walk away comfortably. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) the journalists for the most part (not historians) seem to ignore that up until the crisis of circa 1971 porsche was basically the design and engineering bureau for VW. VW had only a modest design/engineering department. so how much porsche is in a beetle? if you measure it by intellectual effort which doesn't have a molecular weight its going to be a bit hard to come up with content figure. but what you can say.........prior to WW2, porsche himself was imbedded inside VW at wolfsburg, or as it was known then by a group of goose steppers - Stadt des Kdf-Wagen! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) porsche wasn't just an engineer, he was a political operator - he managed to get a certain vegetarian to fund his operation as a state financed industrial giant? and....he sat right at the centre of it in a design bureau. losing the war kind of ruined that business idea. sort of. for a short time (in historical terms). and created the curiosity of a sports car cottage industry as a diversion project to legitimise a design consultancy to..............VW. the history from 1945 to about 5 years ago is still to be written properly? though its been sketched out a few times. and it does not involve convoluted arguments that try to convince us that a 911 is a medieval teapot rather than a 20th century industrial object. what am i saying? you can't unpick VW from porsche and vice versa. and why would you? its an idiot project fit only for journalists to even try. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
bbrock |
Sep 20 2022, 11:03 PM
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#84
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
well - if you count the body as VW (i think karmann was owned by VW at that point) you could probably put the porsche parts in your coat pocket and walk away comfortably. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Well if you did that, you would have to count the 356, 911, 912, and 968s they built as VWs too. That should get some panties in a wad. QUOTE you can't unpick VW from porsche and vice versa. and why would you? And this is a subject that deserves a series of articles. It's why the 914 is so fascinating because any examination of its NARPness forces one to face the false distinction between the two marques. |
wonkipop |
Sep 21 2022, 12:25 AM
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#85
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,159 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
well - if you count the body as VW (i think karmann was owned by VW at that point) you could probably put the porsche parts in your coat pocket and walk away comfortably. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Well if you did that, you would have to count the 356, 911, 912, and 968s they built as VWs too. That should get some panties in a wad. QUOTE you can't unpick VW from porsche and vice versa. and why would you? And this is a subject that deserves a series of articles. It's why the 914 is so fascinating because any examination of its NARPness forces one to face the false distinction between the two marques. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) i do count them as VWs. -----been doing it for years every time a smart alec in a 356C tells me i'm driving a VW and to go park it somewhere else. yep. as far as i am concerned there is no distinction. its a made up idea. f piech would probably agree if he was still around to yell at us. he closed the circle in the end? it took him about 60 years to get it all wrapped up right back where his grandfather had started it. whatever the porschephiles might think? probably why shortly after doing so he went off to the restaurant, enjoyed a file meal and decided to call it all quits on the pleasure of earthly delights. nothing left to do? mission accomplished! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) always had a soft spot for the audi spyder concept back in 90. probably because of the door handles. either piech was having a joke on the side or having something serious to say 30 years after the event. i understand his mother personally intervened to beg him not to build it. |
Porschef |
Sep 21 2022, 05:51 AM
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#86
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How you doin' Group: Members Posts: 2,162 Joined: 7-September 10 From: LawnGuyland Member No.: 12,152 Region Association: North East States |
Just saw this thread, and watched the first segment of the video...
Reminded me of my ignorant 15-49 year old self; basing my opinions on here say, visual interpretation and total lack of knowledge otherwise. Then I actually drove one. That was some tasty humble pie... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Obviously he’s never driven one, nor do I believe worked on one. Brilliant simplicity (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
mrholland2 |
Sep 21 2022, 09:31 AM
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#87
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 746 Joined: 7-September 11 From: Santa Maria,CA Member No.: 13,531 Region Association: Central California |
Watch, and prepare to be angry! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) You don't even have to watch the whole thing. Just the first segment on the 70s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_CmDK5m8yc Please make your comments known in this alleged car expert's video channel. This guy is a complete dumbass my 914 runs fantastic , handles fantastic, turns heads everywhere especially women, went up in value A LOT and still rising. He compares the 914 to a Ford escort and plastic "kit"cars! dunno what kind of ford escorts usa got. whatever they were they must not have been the real escorts. ........... those things were legendary. 1970 London to Mexico rally winner. i had the matchbox model when i was a little kid. u-tube d-head was paying the 914 a very high compliment with his geography myopia slapdown. The Ford escort sold in the US was a POS econobox with no horsepower and really crappy reliability. The only people that bought them were forced to due to economic reasons. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/external-content.duckduckgo.com-1143-1662264029.1.jpg) We owned a total of 4 Escorts and one EXP. 4 out of the 5 were good cars. The 5th was only bad because it had some special "higher fuel mileage" engine that ended up with carb problems. They had no more or less horsepower than other economy cars of the time. My 1981 SS had particularly comfortable seats. |
scott_in_nh |
Sep 21 2022, 11:24 AM
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#88
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 808 Joined: 10-December 10 From: Hampton, NH Member No.: 12,471 Region Association: North East States |
The US Escort GT was not the equal of its European counterpart, but it had 4 wheel independent suspension that VW, Dodge and others did not, good ergos, a happy revving 1.8 liter hemi head, good reliability, good looks and a decent price.
Here's my 86 back in the day Attached thumbnail(s) |
bbrock |
Sep 21 2022, 07:15 PM
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#89
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,269 Joined: 17-February 17 From: Montana Member No.: 20,845 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
always had a soft spot for the audi spyder concept back in 90. probably because of the door handles. either piech was having a joke on the side or having something serious to say 30 years after the event. i understand his mother personally intervened to beg him not to build it. I'm inclined to think he had something serious to say. There is so much more 914 in that car than just the door handles. It's dripping with heritage. A pity it wasn't made but also the right decision not to do so I suppose. I'm sure you've seen this, but this is a fantastic article on the subject. "Today nobody seems to know if the idea came from Porsche or Audi, but there was serious discussion between Ingolstadt and Weissach, Porsche s research centre, regarding Porsche producing two versions of the quattro Spyder. The first, of course, was the Audi; the second was to be a Porsche. This would be history repeating itself: from 1969 to ’76, VW/Porsche built and sold the mid-engined 914 in four-cylinder VW form and with a flat-six for Porsche, both developed at Weissach by Ferdinand Piech, who then worked for the family firm. And the idea would presumably keep Louisa Piech happy." I take this as more strong evidence that the 914 was no redheaded step child. Piech was still chasing his mid-engine production car and Porsche was entertaining the idea of repeating the 914 experience. And let's be honest. That car looks like a modernized 914 - especially from the rear. |
wonkipop |
Sep 22 2022, 01:23 AM
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#90
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,159 Joined: 6-May 20 From: north antarctica Member No.: 24,231 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
always had a soft spot for the audi spyder concept back in 90. probably because of the door handles. either piech was having a joke on the side or having something serious to say 30 years after the event. i understand his mother personally intervened to beg him not to build it. I'm inclined to think he had something serious to say. There is so much more 914 in that car than just the door handles. It's dripping with heritage. A pity it wasn't made but also the right decision not to do so I suppose. I'm sure you've seen this, but this is a fantastic article on the subject. "Today nobody seems to know if the idea came from Porsche or Audi, but there was serious discussion between Ingolstadt and Weissach, Porsche s research centre, regarding Porsche producing two versions of the quattro Spyder. The first, of course, was the Audi; the second was to be a Porsche. This would be history repeating itself: from 1969 to ’76, VW/Porsche built and sold the mid-engined 914 in four-cylinder VW form and with a flat-six for Porsche, both developed at Weissach by Ferdinand Piech, who then worked for the family firm. And the idea would presumably keep Louisa Piech happy." I take this as more strong evidence that the 914 was no redheaded step child. Piech was still chasing his mid-engine production car and Porsche was entertaining the idea of repeating the 914 experience. And let's be honest. That car looks like a modernized 914 - especially from the rear. thanks for the link @bbrock . i enjoyed reading that article which i had not come across before. but probably not as much as f piech enjoyed building the concept car and inflicting discomfort on his past tormentors who by that time were well and truly looking at the end of a cul-de-sac. in 1990 porsche were just building the 964. released initially (at least down here in aus) as only 4wd. audi quatto anyone? when was that again. 1980! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
914 RZ-1 |
Sep 22 2022, 09:10 PM
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#91
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
I listened to the Click and Clack bit. They basically told the woman to just make shit up and that the men wouldn't know anyway. She mentioned they were asking about HP and all that. Seems like if they really knew anything, they would already know that.
I love telling all the wanna-be Porsche snobs I encounter that my car is "Columbus Gray". I painted it myself and the paint code on the can was #1492. Very rare color, I tell them. I've never been questioned about it. People like the guy in the original video like getting everyone's panties in a twist because it gets them views and they feed off the negative energy. Do not engage them. Go drive your 914. |
Superhawk996 |
Sep 23 2022, 06:54 AM
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#92
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,673 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
I love telling all the wanna-be Porsche snobs I encounter that my car is "Columbus Gray". I painted it myself and the paint code on the can was #1492. Very rare color, I tell them. I've never been questioned about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Very fitting since 911 owners often like to claim “rarity” status based on what color their 911 is and how few were ever painted in that shade of whatever color it is. Love it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) |
unpolire |
Sep 23 2022, 11:11 AM
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#93
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 6-July 08 From: Los Angeles CA Member No.: 9,260 Region Association: Southern California |
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unpolire |
Sep 23 2022, 01:57 PM
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#94
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 6-July 08 From: Los Angeles CA Member No.: 9,260 Region Association: Southern California |
Watch, and prepare to be angry! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) You don't even have to watch the whole thing. Just the first segment on the 70s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_CmDK5m8yc Please make your comments known in this alleged car expert's video channel. You will not believe his email response to me today!!! David Long claims that my email is the ONLY COMPLAINT that he has received about the video!!!!! Shall I post his response? I am flabbergasted that he claims that while I am the only one that disagrees with his viewpoints about Porsches, I just "...did not like what I heard, and am angry about it." |
forrestkhaag |
Sep 24 2022, 01:25 PM
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#95
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 935 Joined: 21-April 14 From: Scottsdale, Arizona Member No.: 17,273 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Not sure if he is well grounded in his opinion if he has never owned,built, raced, or been in one.............. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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forrestkhaag |
Sep 24 2022, 01:25 PM
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#96
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 935 Joined: 21-April 14 From: Scottsdale, Arizona Member No.: 17,273 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Not sure if he is well grounded in his opinion if he has never owned,built, raced, or been in one.............. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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914werke |
Sep 24 2022, 03:12 PM
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#97
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"I got blisters on me fingers" Group: Members Posts: 9,894 Joined: 22-March 03 From: USofA Member No.: 453 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Very fitting since 911 owners often like to claim “rarity” status based on what color their 911 is and how few were ever painted in that shade of whatever color it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Uhummm |
Maltese Falcon |
Sep 24 2022, 04:15 PM
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#98
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,620 Joined: 14-September 04 From: Mulholland SoCal Member No.: 2,755 Region Association: None |
I wonder if he knows of #40? ...probably only as the #40 hashtag on the 'Gram & I'm sure that he's a proficient there as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/number40_914.jpg) |
Superhawk996 |
Sep 24 2022, 04:52 PM
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#99
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,673 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Very fitting since 911 owners often like to claim “rarity” status based on what color their 911 is and how few were ever painted in that shade of whatever color it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Uhummm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) But at least they got a unique front valance / air dam. Wouldn’t be any fun if I can’t risk offending someone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) |
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