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> Parts for 2056, Where to source parts
sjhenry1075
post Dec 8 2022, 09:22 AM
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Hey everyone,

I'm in the process of sourcing parts for my 2056 build. I was able to find 2.0 heads that will be rebuilt by a local machine shop, and I found a set of very nice 40 IDF Weber carbs. I'll also be using my 1.7 case.

My question is this: for the engine internals, where can I find these parts? I did see on the Fat Rimco website that they sell a short block kit for $2650 that includes the following:
FAT Camshaft FC 442 Camshaft / FC 440 If Smog
71mm Type 4 Crankshaft
2.0 Connecting Rods - Rebuilt
96mm Forged Pistons & Cylinders - Keith Black
WEB Lifters
Front Oil Seal
Rear Main Seal
Gasket Set - German
Engine Hardware Kit - Nuts & Bolts
Main Bearings - Silverline
Rod Bearings - Mahle
HD Double Thrust Cam Bearings (2 Sets of STD)

What does everyone think about the price? I know some would not refer Fat Rimco for an engine build, but they will just supply the parts, not doing the actual build.

Thoughts?
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Montreal914
post Dec 8 2022, 10:05 AM
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Parts and machining: European Motorworks in Hawthorn, CA. Talk to George (Jorge)
http://www.europeanmotorworks.com/

Camshafts: WebCam in Riverside, CA: http://www.webcamshafts.com/

If you have deeper pockets: Type4 Store.

For assembly reference videos, obviously Ian's video channel: https://www.youtube.com/ @IanKarr

And I also really like Van Svenson's detail work: https://www.youtube.com/@vsvenson

Others will chime in...

Good luck with your fun build! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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930cabman
post Dec 8 2022, 10:22 AM
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All good suggestions, may I add:

D Elgin camshafts

AA Performance Products

If you have experience with rebuilding these, do it yourself. Not too difficult, measure, measure and once again
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914werke
post Dec 8 2022, 11:16 AM
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If you local machine shop has the ability to do the heads Its a good bet that can handle the Rod & Crank rehab which allows you to PU core parts for reasonable?
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sjhenry1075
post Dec 8 2022, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE(914werke @ Dec 8 2022, 12:16 PM) *

If you local machine shop has the ability to do the heads Its a good bet that can handle the Rod & Crank rehab which allows you to PU core parts for reasonable?


Good point, I never considered this. Thank you
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sportlicherFahrer
post Dec 8 2022, 11:28 AM
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I picked up a nice set of pistons and cylinders and my valvetrain parts from Tabari Andrade on FaceBook. He's a machinist by trade, and modifies rockers and end stands for going to solid spacers and swivel feet. He also has some other trick stuff at fairly reasonable prices. Should be able to find him in one of the various 914 groups.

Don't bother with stock rods. The AA forged rods are pretty nice and weigh considerably less than the stock rods. Very close in weight to each other, too. Pretty sure they came with pin bushings already installed. Strongly suggest getting the upgraded ARP bolts.

AA Rods
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barefoot
post Dec 8 2022, 03:59 PM
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You didn't mention any work needed on the cases, if the main bores are ovaled you'll need align boring & while at it decking the cylinder spigots is in order, you'll need a good shop to handle this $$

Barefoot
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mepstein
post Dec 8 2022, 04:56 PM
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Billy Ring
Performance auto works
Kerneysville WV

I was just there yesterday dropping off 3.6 parts (engine case work, heads, crank and rods) and picking up two sets of 911 heads.
He's around the corner from Summit Racetrack. Honest guy, No BS. Reasonable prices for high quality work. Our shop has been taking parts to him for years.
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BeatNavy
post Dec 8 2022, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Dec 8 2022, 05:56 PM) *

Billy Ring
Performance auto works
Kerneysville WV

I was just there yesterday dropping off 3.6 parts (engine case work, heads, crank and rods) and picking up two sets of 911 heads.
He's around the corner from Summit Racetrack. Honest guy, No BS. Reasonable prices for high quality work. Our shop has been taking parts to him for years.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) He did all my machine work (except Tabarri Andrade doing rocker arms) on my 2056. He's definitely a no BS guy, and he knows air-cooled Porsches.

Steve, what are your goals for the build? It looks like you're definitely going carbs rather than FI, but what else? Performance, CR, longevity, etc. Some of that may impact some of your purchase decisions.
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sjhenry1075
post Dec 9 2022, 05:57 AM
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QUOTE(BeatNavy @ Dec 8 2022, 08:25 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Dec 8 2022, 05:56 PM) *

Billy Ring
Performance auto works
Kerneysville WV

I was just there yesterday dropping off 3.6 parts (engine case work, heads, crank and rods) and picking up two sets of 911 heads.
He's around the corner from Summit Racetrack. Honest guy, No BS. Reasonable prices for high quality work. Our shop has been taking parts to him for years.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) He did all my machine work (except Tabarri Andrade doing rocker arms) on my 2056. He's definitely a no BS guy, and he knows air-cooled Porsches.

Steve, what are your goals for the build? It looks like you're definitely going carbs rather than FI, but what else? Performance, CR, longevity, etc. Some of that may impact some of your purchase decisions.


You're right, going carbs over FI. I'm looking for more zip. As you know, I'm a bigger guy, so I need some more power to get me around. I won't be racing the car, just looking for something that will get me places quickly, but also is reliable. At the same time, I don't want to push into the area where I'll need to upgrade the brakes and suspension. I believe a spirited 2056 would be in that area.

In regards to CR, honestly I don't know. I'd like to speak with an engine builder who can explain CR, and why I need to "shoot" for a specific number? I'm guessing the higher the CR, there's more heat so reliability becomes an issue. So what is a good mark to shoot for, 8.1.. 8.5..?
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BeatNavy
post Dec 9 2022, 06:34 AM
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There's a ton of people here who can wax more eloquently than I can in terms of the tradeoffs, but in general:

Yeah, higher CR's produce more heat, require higher octane fuel, generally give you less "room for error" in the build, and may be less forgiving overall. If you're building this yourself, it's probably smart to err on the side of conservative (e.g., no more than 8.5-ish).

I point this out because I didn't really have this all mapped out when I purchased my first set of pistons (valve relief), and after I "stumbled" into my plan later I ended up having to buy a second set of pistons (KB flat top). Once the machine shop is done with your heads they should be able to tell you the combustion chamber volume, and then you'll really be able to determine how best to get to your target CR.

Carbs give you more flexibility in terms of cam selection, but again, more aggressive on the performance side involves tradeoffs on things like idle stability, mileage, etc.

All that said you can definitely get more zip without sacrificing reliability or making it a difficult build.
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930cabman
post Dec 9 2022, 08:48 AM
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I am no professional engine builder, but have built several over the years. My recent 2056 came in around 8.8. She runs great, nice punch with Weber 44's and an Elgin street cam. My gut tells me anything over 9.0 is potentially asking for trouble (for a street machine) Keep us updated with your build
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sjhenry1075
post Dec 9 2022, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE(BeatNavy @ Dec 9 2022, 07:34 AM) *

There's a ton of people here who can wax more eloquently than I can in terms of the tradeoffs, but in general:

Yeah, higher CR's produce more heat, require higher octane fuel, generally give you less "room for error" in the build, and may be less forgiving overall. If you're building this yourself, it's probably smart to err on the side of conservative (e.g., no more than 8.5-ish).

I point this out because I didn't really have this all mapped out when I purchased my first set of pistons (valve relief), and after I "stumbled" into my plan later I ended up having to buy a second set of pistons (KB flat top). Once the machine shop is done with your heads they should be able to tell you the combustion chamber volume, and then you'll really be able to determine how best to get to your target CR.

Carbs give you more flexibility in terms of cam selection, but again, more aggressive on the performance side involves tradeoffs on things like idle stability, mileage, etc.

All that said you can definitely get more zip without sacrificing reliability or making it a difficult build.


Don't you have a 2056? What cam did you use? If I understand this correctly, most of the power comes from the heads/cam/exhaust which all have to be tuned to work together, correct?
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VaccaRabite
post Dec 9 2022, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE(sjhenry1075 @ Dec 9 2022, 09:48 AM) *


Don't you have a 2056? What cam did you use? If I understand this correctly, most of the power comes from the heads/cam/exhaust which all have to be tuned to work together, correct?


Well, yes and no.

If you have a big cam they wants compression then you are going to need headers, and it’s going to want to live at the upper end of the Rev range.

But there are lots of cam out there. I happen to like the web 494 which gives a flat torque curve, is fine with about 8.6:1 compression (though it was also fine with 9.2:1 compression)

Compression makes power, and also makes heat. On my current 2056 I dialed back the compression in favor of less heat. It’s still a fantastic engine that I’m about to go drive over 100 miles away from home for the weekend.

Though they tend to be more expensive, I like the LN Engineering cam kits, and have one in my car (don’t recall the designation, but it’s similar to the 494 but with more exhaust duration).

Zach
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sjhenry1075
post Dec 9 2022, 10:08 AM
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QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ Dec 9 2022, 11:00 AM) *

QUOTE(sjhenry1075 @ Dec 9 2022, 09:48 AM) *


Don't you have a 2056? What cam did you use? If I understand this correctly, most of the power comes from the heads/cam/exhaust which all have to be tuned to work together, correct?


Well, yes and no.

If you have a big cam they wants compression then you are going to need headers, and it’s going to want to live at the upper end of the Rev range.

But there are lots of cam out there. I happen to like the web 494 which gives a flat torque curve, is fine with about 8.6:1 compression (though it was also fine with 9.2:1 compression)

Compression makes power, and also makes heat. On my current 2056 I dialed back the compression in favor of less heat. It’s still a fantastic engine that I’m about to go drive over 100 miles away from home for the weekend.

Though they tend to be more expensive, I like the LN Engineering cam kits, and have one in my car (don’t recall the designation, but it’s similar to the 494 but with more exhaust duration).

Zach


I think I'm going to go with Raby's 9590 and get the delux kit that comes with the chrome moly pushrods.
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BeatNavy
post Dec 9 2022, 10:50 AM
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Steve, I have a 2056 with a 9590 sitting on my garage floor. I only ran it a few hundred miles before i swapped in the 2258 (also with 9590).

Interesting you've selected that cam, as that's marketed/designed as FI-compatible. I guess if you ever wanted to switch over to FI you could then do so. It's a great cam, although on the first start of the day it needs about 30 seconds of throttle-feathering before the idle settles in nicely.
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BeatNavy
post Dec 9 2022, 11:04 AM
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I should also add that the 9590, when used with FI, is really designed (per Jake) for a target CR of 8.5 (max).

As Jake says, "it's all in the combo...."
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sjhenry1075
post Dec 9 2022, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE(BeatNavy @ Dec 9 2022, 12:04 PM) *

I should also add that the 9590, when used with FI, is really designed (per Jake) for a target CR of 8.5 (max).

As Jake says, "it's all in the combo...."


I read through some previous threads about cams which is how I got the idea. I noted how it can be difficult to keep it running when cold. now that you mention that it was designed for FI, I wonder if I should go with something a little more geared towards carbs. I just don't want to leave any power on the table.
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JamesJ
post Dec 9 2022, 12:17 PM
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Not to pull away from OP's question, but it is related. I just had a 2056 "professionally" built with a Raby 9590 cam and am running 8.8:1 compression with stock L-jet. The car ran like a champ for 300 miles, then the engine locked up. When I remove the engine, I am considering lowering the compression. Is that a good idea?
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mepstein
post Dec 9 2022, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE(JamesJ @ Dec 9 2022, 01:17 PM) *

Not to pull away from OP's question, but it is related. I just had a 2056 "professionally" built with a Raby 9590 cam and am running 8.8:1 compression with stock L-jet. The car ran like a champ for 300 miles, then the engine locked up. When I remove the engine, I am considering lowering the compression. Is that a good idea?

You really have to figure out what made the engine lock up. It wasn’t the 8.8 compression ratio - at least not independent of other issues.
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