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> Apfelbeck OHC conversion
KSCarrera
post Dec 27 2022, 04:48 AM
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Something a little different, aimed solely at Type 4/914 engines. Project began back in the 1970s and after years of lying dormant, has been resurrected by a team of followers.

More here: https://www.facebook.com/ApfelbeckOHC

and here: http://www.apfelbeck.nl/

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wonkipop
post Dec 27 2022, 05:02 AM
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very tasty.
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gereed75
post Dec 27 2022, 08:08 AM
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Could be a very viable alternative to the Polo flat four.
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nathanxnathan
post Dec 27 2022, 12:00 PM
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Looks like it's a long way from functional, with the belts not tensioned, seems it's missing a pulley.

It's crazy how beefy the pulley/belt system looks.

Looks like it will have to have an external oil cooler as there's no room for one in the stock location. The ports there are also blocked so I wonder where they plan to pick it up. Probably will have to be full flow and bypass/externalize the relief piston also.

The shroud will definitely have to be fully custom.

Makes you wonder why they built it for a type 4 vs a type 1. It would seem more at home on a Pauter Type 1 case. I guess it's about application, but the type 4 case seems out of place with all that's bolted onto it, and barely using any of the original design.
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Superhawk996
post Dec 27 2022, 04:50 PM
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God bless people with lots of extra time and money on their hands doing projects that just make you go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

That’s an awful lot of extra mass and complexity to get to a 3 valve engine. I’ll be looking forward to dyno development that will be needed to sort out lubrication, reliability, and tuning issues. Wonder what they are expecting for HP output? 2/3 of an equivalent two valve six that has been warmed over?

I see claims of 8500 rpm and up to 115 HP/L - good luck with that.
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mepstein
post Dec 27 2022, 06:13 PM
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I prefer to piggyback on all the development that Porsche did rather than reinvent the wheel.
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930cabman
post Dec 27 2022, 07:40 PM
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ALA tp547

Very cool, budget $$
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rhodyguy
post Dec 28 2022, 10:38 AM
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out.
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Where do the alternator and cooling fan mount? The long block appears to be quite wide. I fail to see the point of this endeavor. What is this? A $75k engine?
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tygaboy
post Dec 28 2022, 10:49 AM
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I love people who do things like this: a stupendous time/money sink that may go nowhere. And if it does, only a handful of people will ever want it enough to pay.

You can just picture them, laying awake thinking endlessly about "...would this work? What about...?"

Just a wonderful example of two of my favotite tag lines:

- Because I can.

- Mine is different

Abso-f-ing-loutely LOVE it.

Chase that passion! Rock on, dudes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
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ClayPerrine
post Dec 28 2022, 12:17 PM
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QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 28 2022, 10:49 AM) *

I love people who do things like this: a stupendous time/money sink that may go nowhere. And if it does, only a handful of people will ever want it enough to pay.

You can just picture them, laying awake thinking endlessly about "...would this work? What about...?"

Just a wonderful example of two of my favotite tag lines:

- Because I can.

- Mine is different

Abso-f-ing-loutely LOVE it.

Chase that passion! Rock on, dudes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I am one of those people... I lay awake at night thinking about how to do rather rude things to 914s. Betty always says that I would be real trouble if I had money and time in abundance.
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Superhawk996
post Dec 28 2022, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 28 2022, 11:49 AM) *

I love people who do things like this: a stupendous time/money sink that may go nowhere. And if it does, only a handful of people will ever want it enough to pay.

You can just picture them, laying awake thinking endlessly about "...would this work? What about...?"

Just a wonderful example of two of my favotite tag lines:

- Because I can.

- Mine is different

Abso-f-ing-loutely LOVE it.

Chase that passion! Rock on, dudes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)


A Ferrari swap seems to fit the same bill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Likewise Clay’s 4.0l swap is pretty out there too!

I hope my post didn’t come off as overly negative. I envy them for doing it. I just don’t think the engineering goals are supported by physics.

The T4 crank is a pretty compromised design that exhibits crank whip and pounding of the center bearing when operated within its OEM RPM limit. Sure they could be lightening and balancing it to zero imbalance but forces go up as the square of angular velocity.

Likewise 115 HP/L has been done on naturally aspirated engines but it’s usually done by spinning even faster than 8500 RPM and/or with variable valve timing and 4 valve designs.

I’ll gladly eat crow if they pull it off but God bless em’ for trying it. If I ever hit the lottery I’ve got plenty of money pit projects I’d love to attempt.
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Bullethead
post Dec 28 2022, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE(gereed75 @ Dec 27 2022, 09:08 AM) *

Could be a very viable alternative to the Polo flat four.


Maybe, but the dimensions of this engine could be an issue for some... the Polo is pretty compact.
Dean built me a 2.4 for my 356, but changed direction because I didn't want to alter the sheet metal to fit it and a 901.

Some brave soul is going to stuff it into a Karmann Ghia which will be a unique application. Looking forward to seeing it finished.

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There was a guy that raced a vintage BMW 2002 with an Apfelbeck F2 motor, which was fast and fascinating. Whenever he had the hood off it drew a crowd.
This is an interesting exercise, but as others note, it will have a small audience considering what can be done with a pushrod Type 4.
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JmuRiz
post Dec 28 2022, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE(Bullethead @ Dec 28 2022, 04:58 PM) *

Maybe, but the dimensions of this engine could be an issue for some... the Polo is pretty compact.
Dean built me a 2.4 for my 356, but changed direction because I didn't want to alter the sheet metal to fit it and a 901.

I thought you could run a polo on a 741 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
I’d love to polo my 356, since my engine doesn’t match anyway, and my friend has worked on them in 356 racecars before.
I’ll paint my car first and would probably take another 10 years of savings for a new engine.

VERY cool engine!
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mepstein
post Dec 28 2022, 08:11 PM
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The Polo engines have become very expensive. Like $80-100K when all is said and done. They sort of make sense to me if you want more power in a 356 but a 914 easily fits a six and the Polo engines are only about 80 lbs lighter than a built 2.7.
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mb911
post Dec 29 2022, 08:11 AM
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Do you know the story why Polos are so expensive? Basically someone else kind of stole the design and started building their own instead of Dean
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Bullethead
post Dec 29 2022, 09:56 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And pretty shitty of them... Only Dean builds Polos. It's his name after all.

@JmuRiz , you can run a 741 but I was heading down the slippery slope of 5 speed and full 911 rear suspension.
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Superhawk996
post Dec 29 2022, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 29 2022, 09:11 AM) *

Do you know the story why Polos are so expensive?


Custom case mods via welding / casting / or carve from billet

Custom crank

Custom cams, cam towers, and rocker covers

Can’t imagine why they would be expensive (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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JmuRiz
post Dec 29 2022, 10:34 PM
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Original polo engines are cool (found photos of the one I referenced above….end of my thread jack):


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live free & drive
post Dec 30 2022, 01:20 PM
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This is a good thread on the Polo engine:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-...ngine-dyno.html

Looks like they are achieving 100 hp per liter - the engine shows dyno numbers of 250 hp at 2.5 l
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914werke
post Dec 30 2022, 02:18 PM
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Doesn't Rod Emory utilize Deans motors in his hi-$ outlaws?
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