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> K&N garbage, need replacement recommendations
vitamin914
post Feb 1 2023, 07:42 AM
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My 2.4 L with Weber 44 IDF carbs, came with no name air filters. Could not find a source for the weird sized ovals and decided to replace the entire assemblies. I found a kit from K&N made for the Weber 44s (K&N 56-1170). Didn't think much of the flimsy quality but better than nothing - or so I thought.

After I installed them I drove around very little, maybe 50 miles at most before the 914 went into winter storage. I noticed one of the tin caps had lost the screw - I hope like hell it fell out onto the road and not someplace where it can do damage.

I know I tightened them down to the point where I was afraid I would crush the filter or bend the tin cap. Checked the other side that still had the screw, it was not as tight as I had originally made it. It too had backed off. Took off the cap and pulled out the filter element on the carb where the screw went missing... WTF? it is warped? Looked closer and the damn thing is full of holes. Like some have said an old sock over the carbs would be better than a K&N filter. See the photos.

Not going to have the screws fall out again - I replaced the taper flathead screw with a screw from below (with red loctite) and jam nuts on top of the tin cover.

I have joined those who hate K&N - never again. So much so, that I want to get rid of them and replace them with something more reliable that actually filters air.

I need some help sourcing air filter assemblies for Weber 44 IDFs. Is there anything you would recommend, readily available, that is a better filter (paper element?) and looks nice?


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barefoot
post Feb 1 2023, 08:26 AM
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Mine came with Dellotoro brand filters & 2 bolt mountings
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BillJ
post Feb 1 2023, 08:35 AM
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Yeah i am used to seeing the two bolt versions. One is weak. Did yiu use blue loctite? May be helpful. See below how i did them for my six. Drilled holes in the wing nuts and use spring as retainers. Effective and easy.

The holes in the filter are purposeful but totally get your frustration.

ITG makes a nice product and elinates you warping issue. However they dont offer much rain protection as they are a foam like material without top shield as i recall.

Good.luck!



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BillJ
post Feb 1 2023, 08:40 AM
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Now that i think of it you could easily do the wing nut setup with a single post as well. Drill a small hole in the edge of the cover and attach spring there.

And btw that is a nice looking setup you have there!
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Craigers17
post Feb 1 2023, 09:06 AM
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I got my stuff through CBPerformance. I haven't had them on that long, but they aren't coming off, and, so far, the filters have held up well. The only caveat is that these housings have a much thicker baseplate, so you will almost definitely need to buy the longer studs, which are as follows:

7218 Long Velocity Stack Securing Stud (6 x 50)

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JmuRiz
post Feb 1 2023, 09:13 AM
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Bummer about the filter gap, not much you can do about bad QC.

On my car with IDFs I use a rubber o-ring under the top nut. This helps it grip a bit and not back out so easy when the flat 4 is shaking while running.
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Bullethead
post Feb 1 2023, 10:18 AM
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ITG or RamAir filters are probably the most free-flowing, and they're washable. I've only used them on racers, but see no reason they wouldn't be good on a street car.
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Superhawk996
post Feb 1 2023, 11:18 AM
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K&N not necessarily bad for what they are but expecting high flow and high filtration are at odds with each other.

The holes you’re seeing in the rubber surround are a defect and should be sent back for replacement.

With a single nut you would be better off using a Nylock nut than jam nuts. Nylock will be far better as resisting loosening due to vibration.
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PCH
post Feb 1 2023, 12:41 PM
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I second the CBPerformance stuff. The K&N stuff is just too flimsy.
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PCH
post Feb 1 2023, 12:47 PM
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PS: I notice the round hole in the engine tin on the left. Will it be used for something? If not, I would recommend plugging it to improve your cooling by keeping the high pressure cooling air and low pressure exhaust air separate.
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vitamin914
post Feb 1 2023, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE(PCH @ Feb 1 2023, 01:47 PM) *

PS: I notice the round hole in the engine tin on the left. Will it be used for something? If not, I would recommend plugging it to improve your cooling by keeping the high pressure cooling air and low pressure exhaust air separate.


@PCH

In the Spring when the thermometer climbs out of the too cold do things zone (supposed to be -7 deg F this Saturday), I'll fire it up to see how much air is coming out of that hole(s) (there is a matching one on the other side) and plug it. The engine was built by Fat Performance in CA and installed by the PO. I know there is no heat for the cabin anymore, what I don't know is if there are any other modifications to keep the high pressure air from leaking out. Definitely something to look at. I know I have to plug the openings into the longs where the heat hoses from the exchangers used to go.

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vitamin914
post Feb 1 2023, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Feb 1 2023, 12:18 PM) *

K&N not necessarily bad for what they are but expecting high flow and high filtration are at odds with each other.

The holes you’re seeing in the rubber surround are a defect and should be sent back for replacement.

With a single nut you would be better off using a Nylock nut than jam nuts. Nylock will be far better as resisting loosening due to vibration.


@Superhawk996

Yeah, I realized it was a defect. There are many comments about K&N not being very good (Captn Crusty was one that despised KN stuff). One way to increase both flow with better flirtation is to increase surface area to compensate for the higher restriction. I was curious what others have done. I will need to look into what CBPerformance has available. I would like to use a better filter element since one thread I read blamed clogged jets on dirt getting past K&Ns.

Nylocks are one time use and I didn't have any. The other reason for the jam nuts is the construction of the bridge where the screw goes in to hold down the top cap. To make it cheap it wasn't threaded, it just uses a threaded speed clip. I ran the screw up from the bottom but there isn't much more that a single thread to hold the locktite in place. I was concerned that tightening the nylock would break the locktite bond. The jam nut setup does not have that problem. The fix is only temporary. I want to get rid of the K&N housing all together.

Thank God I put Automotive Goop on that speed clip to keep it in place. When the screw fell out that clip could have fallen into the intake. The screw pins the speed clip from moving off sideways from the bridge hole, otherwise there is normally nothing except a bit of friction holding that speed clip in place. If it wasn't Goop'ed in place it could have fallen off and into the engine. Not a fail safe design.
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rhodyguy
post Feb 1 2023, 05:37 PM
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out.
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I found cleaning and re-oiling the K&Ns a messy hassle.
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Superhawk996
post Feb 1 2023, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE(vitamin914 @ Feb 1 2023, 04:14 PM) *
I want to get rid of the K&N housing all together.


Good luck with that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

There are a couple of high dollar solutions on the market ($1000+) out of Europe if I recall. Or you can do like @bbrock and custom fabricate your own. Brent’s is impressive but I know he put a ton of work into its fabrication and getting it to fit properly with a rain tray.
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Superhawk996
post Feb 1 2023, 06:50 PM
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Ancient thread but it will give you an idea of the high dollar CSP thing I was referring to.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/i...hp?t110167.htmlAttached Image

@vitamin914

No idea how well this works or fits, just aware of its existence.
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rhodyguy
post Feb 1 2023, 07:11 PM
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out.
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Where does that ship from? Individual, conventional paper filter, assems cost a lot less than 1k+ a pair. What is a ‘Porsche Style Fan’? Like the
FAT style one? Free shipping for a set from CIP1.
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Superhawk996
post Feb 1 2023, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Feb 1 2023, 08:11 PM) *

Where does that ship from? Individual, conventional paper filter, assems cost a lot less than 1k+ a pair. What is a ‘Porsche Style Fan’? Like the
FAT style one? Free shipping for a set from CIP1.

CSP is out of Germany I think.

Yes it is for a Type 1 engine with an upright Porsche style shroud. I have no idea how it will fit to an 914 with an engine lid or rain tray but I would expect that it is probably made of ABS plastic or fiberglass and could be a starting point for modification.

Brent definitely hand fabricated something similar and made it fit so I’m sure the concept is valid.

If anything, I’d probably just go with the CB aluminum setup. I ran the K&N style on IDFs for years and never had a problem but given the options today, I’d probably run the foam pre filters that are available just to provide a little more filtration.
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vitamin914
post Feb 1 2023, 08:22 PM
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The CSP air box is an interesting setup. Expensive and it may or may not fit the 914. It would be a gamble and having to modify it to fit is not something I want to add to my list.


I am not against the K&N "style" or "type" of set up with the oval filter element. I did have an issue with the quality of the K&N made filter and the flimsy K&N made housing assembly. Hence my calling them garbage.

The CB Performance aluminum assembly looks much better as far as quality and design go and is about the same price as what the stamped tin K&N setup cost me.

I would like to avoid the mess of washing and oiling reusable elements. Anyone know of filter elements for this style of housing that are for one time use (not washable)?


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bbrock
post Feb 1 2023, 10:22 PM
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I would bet you could find a round paper element filter the same diameter as the oval K&Ns and squish them down to fit in the housing.

CSP does (or did) make a cleaner for a Type IV. @rgolia has one.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2695882
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-11329-1552305618_thumb.jpg)

And if you are interested in going my crazy route that @Superhawk996 mentioned, here's more info:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=352004

and


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm-LOk_IBpg
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ChrisFoley
post Feb 2 2023, 05:17 AM
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I sell ITGs
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