Aftermarket FI options for Type 4 motors 2056 or larger, Who here has gone this route and is it worth it? What options do we have? Options

[DRPHIL914]

i started looking into this 2 years ago when i was planning my rebuild motor after the drpped valve seat on the OEM motor.
I ended up building a nice 2056 with increased compression, brand new heads, counter balanced crank and of course the cam is performance minded as well.
to start i installed the d-jet and later last year i added a 50mm bored out stock throttle body from Tangerine/Chris Foley. Yes this helped a great deal, but we are still limited due to the d-jet and the MPS. So there are a few people out there that make ITB( independant throttle body) that could be used.
One is Jenvey, and i see that PMB is carrying those. It looks ike they are mated to what ever IDF intake manifold you choose. there are 40, 45, 48 options. mated with 350cc injectors.
I am wondering other than the CB performance stuff that has been available for a while, others have come to the table, who here has played around with this ? over the years ive read a lot on others using the megasquirt and micro etc and it seemd they were very difficult to tune and set up with lots of problems, trial and error.

I am looking for advice on what to stay away from and what are the pitfalls and mistakes we can avoid before jumping into this.

Look forward to some input, thanks!!

Phil

[VaccaRabite]

One of the things I'd be wary of with the Dub Shop kit is that it does not (at least when I looked at it) have any ability to run an ICV (Idle Control Valve) or an IAC (Idle Air Control). In my journey with Microsquirt, that's been a critical piece of the puzzle to keep idle steady and starts somewhat smooth.

You CAN do it without the ICV/IAC/whatever you want to call it. For a while I removed the IAC and just used the bleed valve on the TB to manage idle - similar to how D-Jet did it. It works fine once the car is warmed up fully. But getting started on a chilly damp day was challenging that way. And until the engine warmed up it was also a challenging drive, as you need to use throttle to raise idle speed.

Using stock components or using the dual throttle bodies makes the IAC interesting to implement. My solution was kinda janky but it works using a 3d printed connector that attaches a Hyundai IAC from the airbox to the Plenum, suspended on a stout hose. But in my opinion, its a really critical piece of a smooth running FI system. Its also part of the system on just about every modern car.

Zach

[GregAmy]

One of the things I'd be wary of with the Dub Shop kit is that it does not (at least when I looked at it) have any ability to run an ICV (Idle Control Valve) or an IAC (Idle Air Control). In my journey with Microsquirt, that's been a critical piece of the puzzle to keep idle steady and starts somewhat smooth.

@VaccaRabite Zach, I'm controlling idle on my Microsquirt setup using timing advance/retard. Give it 30 seconds of throttle to get the heads warmed up (I'm still working on my cold start up sequence) but then it cores and smooths the idle like a mofo, you'd never know there wasn't an idle air control valve in there.

It's an option within TunerStudio settings and it works really, really well. - GA

[GregAmy]

One of the things I'd be wary of with the Dub Shop kit is that it does not (at least when I looked at it) have any ability to run an ICV (Idle Control Valve) or an IAC (Idle Air Control). In my journey with Microsquirt, that's been a critical piece of the puzzle to keep idle steady and starts somewhat smooth.

@VaccaRabite Zach, I'm controlling idle on my Microsquirt setup using timing advance/retard. Give it 30 seconds of throttle to get the heads warmed up (I'm still working on my cold start up sequence) but then it cores and smooths the idle like a mofo, you'd never know there wasn't an idle air control valve in there.

It's an option within TunerStudio settings and it works really, really well. - GA

EDIT: got home looked it up. TunerStudio, Startup/Idle, Idle Advance Settings, Change "Idle Advance On" to RPMs. Then Startup/Idle, Idle Advance RPM Settings, and you create a table how you want the timing to change based on RPM.

I have mine set to 15.4@700, 6.7@800, 0@950, -11.9@1100, and -17.9@1250. Cores my idle at 950 really nicely.

Note Startup/Idle, Idle Control, Idle Valve Type is set to "None".

[VaccaRabite]

One of the things I'd be wary of with the Dub Shop kit is that it does not (at least when I looked at it) have any ability to run an ICV (Idle Control Valve) or an IAC (Idle Air Control). In my journey with Microsquirt, that's been a critical piece of the puzzle to keep idle steady and starts somewhat smooth.

@VaccaRabite Zach, I'm controlling idle on my Microsquirt setup using timing advance/retard. Give it 30 seconds of throttle to get the heads warmed up (I'm still working on my cold start up sequence) but then it cores and smooths the idle like a mofo, you'd never know there wasn't an idle air control valve in there.

It's an option within TunerStudio settings and it works really, really well. - GA

EDIT: got home looked it up. TunerStudio, Startup/Idle, Idle Advance Settings, Change "Idle Advance On" to RPMs. Then Startup/Idle, Idle Advance RPM Settings, and you create a table how you want the timing to change based on RPM.

I have mine set to 15.4@700, 6.7@800, 0@950, -11.9@1100, and -17.9@1250. Cores my idle at 950 really nicely.

Note Startup/Idle, Idle Control, Idle Valve Type is set to "None".

Interesting. I'm assuming the timing retard jumps as soon as touch the throttle?

I know the engine Eric is building also uses an IAC, and its currently a sticking point as you can't get the bodies they plug into. I wonder if his team has looked into controlling idle through timing.

@eric_shea

[GregAmy]

Interesting. I'm assuming the timing retard jumps as soon as touch the throttle?

Haven't really noticed; I can send some logs if you'd like to look it over? But note there's also a setting in "Idle Advance Settings" where you control at what TPS and RPM it's affecting timing; mine is "below 2%" and "below 1200". Anything above that and it's using the ignition map.

I'll offer that this feature is giving me some minor headaches on the Toyota MR2 race car with radical cams. The engine either just wants to die near desired idle using low throttle body bypass (not enough air) or take off with more TB bypass (too much air) and there's not a lot of difference between the two TB settings.

I had to find a middle ground where I opened the bypass a tad more and aggressively pulled back timing below 5% TPS to core the idle at 1500 and set it to pull the idle timing below 2500 RPM (which is fine for a race car that lives at 5000-8000). - GA