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> What went wrong?, it was running great and then not at all
Type 47
post Mar 15 2023, 03:59 PM
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so we put the original 62k engine back in that had not had the distributor removed. Adjusted the valves (again after we put about 10 miles on it) we rebuilt the Webbers and it fired up. We did some timing and tweaking on the carbs.

It ran OK but a little shy of perfect. I replaced the wires and it seemed to improve it but idled a little high around 1,200.

My son came over to work on it the next day, but I wasn't home. All of a sudden, it won't even run.

we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement.

tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out)

my son says we have spark, too much fuel, and not enough air.

What do we do next?????

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Superhawk996
post Mar 15 2023, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE(Type 47 @ Mar 15 2023, 04:59 PM) *



we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement.

tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out)


Not trying to be a jerk but saying you didn’t change much right after mentioning a distributor swap doesn’t make sense.

Timing is 100% dependent on the distributor and its position.

If you’re convinced distributor is installed correctly and plug wires are in proper firing order . . . Statically time the car then see if it starts.
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Root_Werks
post Mar 15 2023, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Mar 15 2023, 03:15 PM) *

QUOTE(Type 47 @ Mar 15 2023, 04:59 PM) *



we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement.

tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out)


Not trying to be a jerk but saying you didn’t change much right after mentioning a distributor swap doesn’t make sense.

Timing is 100% dependent on the distributor and its position.

If you’re convinced distributor is installed correctly and plug wires are in proper firing order . . . Statically time the car then see if it starts.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Don't rule out the basics including yourself as a variable. Swapped a dizzy recently in our Jeep, wouldn't light up, seemed like no spark.....until I realized I determined TDC incorrectly = oops. Quick re-do of static timing and Vroom! Fired right off.
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Type 47
post Mar 15 2023, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Mar 15 2023, 02:15 PM) *

QUOTE(Type 47 @ Mar 15 2023, 04:59 PM) *



we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement.

tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out)


Not trying to be a jerk but saying you didn’t change much right after mentioning a distributor swap doesn’t make sense.

Timing is 100% dependent on the distributor and its position.

If you’re convinced distributor is installed correctly and plug wires are in proper firing order . . . Statically time the car then see if it starts.


you're not being a jerk...I probably didn't explain properly. 6 weeks ago when we put the engine back in we had not touched the distributor. It ran ok, then we began to dial it in.

Today, we swapped distributor, points, etc. trying to figure out why it went south.
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Type 47
post Mar 15 2023, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE(Root_Werks @ Mar 15 2023, 02:20 PM) *

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Mar 15 2023, 03:15 PM) *

QUOTE(Type 47 @ Mar 15 2023, 04:59 PM) *



we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement.

tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out)


Not trying to be a jerk but saying you didn’t change much right after mentioning a distributor swap doesn’t make sense.

Timing is 100% dependent on the distributor and its position.

If you’re convinced distributor is installed correctly and plug wires are in proper firing order . . . Statically time the car then see if it starts.




(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Don't rule out the basics including yourself as a variable. Swapped a dizzy recently in our Jeep, wouldn't light up, seemed like no spark.....until I realized I determined TDC incorrectly = oops. Quick re-do of static timing and Vroom! Fired right off.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) completely.

my son, who is an ASE mechanic, has been racking his brain and is a little frustrated.

If it was just me, that would be another question.

So, if distributor, points were working properly could they go south? Could changing the wires triggered something?
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Superhawk996
post Mar 15 2023, 04:33 PM
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Using the parts shotgun approach to troubleshoot has created more variables than you started with when it 1st wouldn’t run.

Start over from scratch - verify everything.

You say you have spark - but it needs to be at the appropriate time. (Set static timing)

If you have spark at the proper time and fuel it will run.

Do you see the accelerator pump shooting fuel? Do you smell excess fuel or have wet spark plugs? Why do you say too much fuel not enough air? That is solved by cranking with the throttle open until it catches if you have the idle jets way out of whack.

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Superhawk996
post Mar 15 2023, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE(Type 47 @ Mar 15 2023, 05:28 PM) *



So, if distributor, points were working properly could they go south? Could changing the wires triggered something?

If you have spark the distributor, points, condenser, etc., didn’t go south.
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930cabman
post Mar 15 2023, 04:38 PM
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Is there compression?
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Superhawk996
post Mar 15 2023, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE(930cabman @ Mar 15 2023, 05:38 PM) *

Is there compression?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I ASSUMED . . . Good call

Three things to run:
Fuel
Compression
Spark

Verify everything
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nditiz1
post Mar 15 2023, 05:02 PM
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I would put the old distro back in and make sure the wires are correct and the engine is on TDC. Verify actual TDC but popping off 1/2 valve cover to see both rockers rattle.

Make sure when you press the gas pedal you can see all 4 throats get a shot of fuel.

I have to assume compression is enough since it was just running.

Start there first.
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930cabman
post Mar 15 2023, 05:02 PM
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Is a cam lobe wiped out? Known history is inconclusive
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Superhawk996
post Mar 15 2023, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE(nditiz1 @ Mar 15 2023, 06:02 PM) *

I would put the old distro back in and make sure the wires are correct and the engine is on TDC. Verify actual TDC but popping off 1/2 valve cover to see both rockers rattle.

Make sure when you press the gas pedal you can see all 4 throats get a shot of fuel.

I have to assume compression is enough since it was just running.

Start there first.

I gotta disagree with the distributor swap. If it sparks it’s working. The parts swapping isn’t helpful and is just adding to the confusion. It should have never been swapped in the 1st place.

I get the idea behind it but it’s just another chance to get it 180 out or to have the drive gear (below the tang) get lifted and dropped back in a tooth off.

In practice if you take a car into the shop - they will not start by swapping distributors to solve a timing or no spark condition. A distributor swap would be the last thing in the list.

Like you - I assumed compression but it really should be checked if there is spark and fuel
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Aerostatwv
post Mar 15 2023, 05:21 PM
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Sounds like a bad condenser to me.
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Superhawk996
post Mar 15 2023, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE(Aerostatwv @ Mar 15 2023, 06:21 PM) *

Sounds like a bad condenser to me.

If it’s sparking it isn’t a bad condenser leading to a no start
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Type 47
post Mar 15 2023, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Mar 15 2023, 02:33 PM) *


Do you see the accelerator pump shooting fuel? Do you smell excess fuel or have wet spark plugs? Why do you say too much fuel not enough air? That is solved by cranking with the throttle open until it catches if you have the idle jets way out of whack.


Yes, a lot of fuel. We pulled the plugs to check the gap and make sure they were dry.

While my son has impressed me assembling this car from the rotisserie, he normally does engine work/timing chains, etc. on 5-10 year old cars.

He is "mr. shotgun" and while he has a great understanding of how things work, working on a car without a dozen computers on it is a challenge at times.
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nditiz1
post Mar 15 2023, 05:54 PM
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If the swapped in distro is a known working entity then by all means leave it, but it's adding another mysterious part. I always go back to last known since nothing else was supposedly changed from when it was working last.
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Type 47
post Mar 15 2023, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE(nditiz1 @ Mar 15 2023, 03:02 PM) *

I would put the old distro back in and make sure the wires are correct and the engine is on TDC. Verify actual TDC but popping off 1/2 valve cover to see both rockers rattle.

Make sure when you press the gas pedal you can see all 4 throats get a shot of fuel.

I have to assume compression is enough since it was just running.

Start there first.


yes, good compression. except 3 is a little weak.

will check the shot of fuel to each barrel tomorrow
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Type 47
post Mar 15 2023, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE(nditiz1 @ Mar 15 2023, 03:54 PM) *

If the swapped in distro is a known working entity then by all means leave it, but it's adding another mysterious part. I always go back to last known since nothing else was supposedly changed from when it was working last.


Yes, we put everything back to where it was before.
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Superhawk996
post Mar 15 2023, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE(Type 47 @ Mar 15 2023, 06:57 PM) *

QUOTE(nditiz1 @ Mar 15 2023, 03:54 PM) *

If the swapped in distro is a known working entity then by all means leave it, but it's adding another mysterious part. I always go back to last known since nothing else was supposedly changed from when it was working last.


Yes, we put everything back to where it was before.

I don’t fully understand what “back where it was before” means to you.

I’ll reiterate - need to set the static timing. Without engine running based on the exact moment the points open using a multimeter to know when the points open.

Without that set - you’re just guessing that the timing is where it belongs in order to start properly.
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bossboy302
post Mar 15 2023, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE(nditiz1 @ Mar 15 2023, 04:02 PM) *

Verify actual TDC but popping off 1/2 valve cover to see both rockers rattle.


Remember that a 4-stroke engine gets to TDC twice...make sure it is at "Ignition" TDC....watch the rockers to verify intake was last valve to close before TDC.
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