What went wrong?, it was running great and then not at all |
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What went wrong?, it was running great and then not at all |
Type 47 |
Mar 15 2023, 03:59 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 1-June 10 From: St. Louis, MO Member No.: 11,790 Region Association: None |
so we put the original 62k engine back in that had not had the distributor removed. Adjusted the valves (again after we put about 10 miles on it) we rebuilt the Webbers and it fired up. We did some timing and tweaking on the carbs.
It ran OK but a little shy of perfect. I replaced the wires and it seemed to improve it but idled a little high around 1,200. My son came over to work on it the next day, but I wasn't home. All of a sudden, it won't even run. we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement. tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out) my son says we have spark, too much fuel, and not enough air. What do we do next????? |
Superhawk996 |
Mar 15 2023, 04:15 PM
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#2
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,514 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement. tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out) Not trying to be a jerk but saying you didn’t change much right after mentioning a distributor swap doesn’t make sense. Timing is 100% dependent on the distributor and its position. If you’re convinced distributor is installed correctly and plug wires are in proper firing order . . . Statically time the car then see if it starts. |
Root_Werks |
Mar 15 2023, 04:20 PM
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#3
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,465 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement. tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out) Not trying to be a jerk but saying you didn’t change much right after mentioning a distributor swap doesn’t make sense. Timing is 100% dependent on the distributor and its position. If you’re convinced distributor is installed correctly and plug wires are in proper firing order . . . Statically time the car then see if it starts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Don't rule out the basics including yourself as a variable. Swapped a dizzy recently in our Jeep, wouldn't light up, seemed like no spark.....until I realized I determined TDC incorrectly = oops. Quick re-do of static timing and Vroom! Fired right off. |
Type 47 |
Mar 15 2023, 04:21 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 1-June 10 From: St. Louis, MO Member No.: 11,790 Region Association: None |
we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement. tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out) Not trying to be a jerk but saying you didn’t change much right after mentioning a distributor swap doesn’t make sense. Timing is 100% dependent on the distributor and its position. If you’re convinced distributor is installed correctly and plug wires are in proper firing order . . . Statically time the car then see if it starts. you're not being a jerk...I probably didn't explain properly. 6 weeks ago when we put the engine back in we had not touched the distributor. It ran ok, then we began to dial it in. Today, we swapped distributor, points, etc. trying to figure out why it went south. |
Type 47 |
Mar 15 2023, 04:28 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 1-June 10 From: St. Louis, MO Member No.: 11,790 Region Association: None |
we swapped distributers (both 009's) with the parts car, then swapped points (adjusted to 0.016). no improvement. tested spark to all four cylinders. I seems like it's really out of timing but we didn't change it much. (except for the fact that we took the distributor out) Not trying to be a jerk but saying you didn’t change much right after mentioning a distributor swap doesn’t make sense. Timing is 100% dependent on the distributor and its position. If you’re convinced distributor is installed correctly and plug wires are in proper firing order . . . Statically time the car then see if it starts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Don't rule out the basics including yourself as a variable. Swapped a dizzy recently in our Jeep, wouldn't light up, seemed like no spark.....until I realized I determined TDC incorrectly = oops. Quick re-do of static timing and Vroom! Fired right off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) completely. my son, who is an ASE mechanic, has been racking his brain and is a little frustrated. If it was just me, that would be another question. So, if distributor, points were working properly could they go south? Could changing the wires triggered something? |
Superhawk996 |
Mar 15 2023, 04:33 PM
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#6
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,514 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Using the parts shotgun approach to troubleshoot has created more variables than you started with when it 1st wouldn’t run.
Start over from scratch - verify everything. You say you have spark - but it needs to be at the appropriate time. (Set static timing) If you have spark at the proper time and fuel it will run. Do you see the accelerator pump shooting fuel? Do you smell excess fuel or have wet spark plugs? Why do you say too much fuel not enough air? That is solved by cranking with the throttle open until it catches if you have the idle jets way out of whack. |
Superhawk996 |
Mar 15 2023, 04:36 PM
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#7
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,514 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
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930cabman |
Mar 15 2023, 04:38 PM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,672 Joined: 12-November 20 From: Buffalo Member No.: 24,877 Region Association: North East States |
Is there compression?
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Superhawk996 |
Mar 15 2023, 04:41 PM
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#9
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,514 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Is there compression? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I ASSUMED . . . Good call Three things to run: Fuel Compression Spark Verify everything |
nditiz1 |
Mar 15 2023, 05:02 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,202 Joined: 26-May 15 From: Mount Airy, Maryland Member No.: 18,763 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I would put the old distro back in and make sure the wires are correct and the engine is on TDC. Verify actual TDC but popping off 1/2 valve cover to see both rockers rattle.
Make sure when you press the gas pedal you can see all 4 throats get a shot of fuel. I have to assume compression is enough since it was just running. Start there first. |
930cabman |
Mar 15 2023, 05:02 PM
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#11
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,672 Joined: 12-November 20 From: Buffalo Member No.: 24,877 Region Association: North East States |
Is a cam lobe wiped out? Known history is inconclusive
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Superhawk996 |
Mar 15 2023, 05:17 PM
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#12
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,514 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
I would put the old distro back in and make sure the wires are correct and the engine is on TDC. Verify actual TDC but popping off 1/2 valve cover to see both rockers rattle. Make sure when you press the gas pedal you can see all 4 throats get a shot of fuel. I have to assume compression is enough since it was just running. Start there first. I gotta disagree with the distributor swap. If it sparks it’s working. The parts swapping isn’t helpful and is just adding to the confusion. It should have never been swapped in the 1st place. I get the idea behind it but it’s just another chance to get it 180 out or to have the drive gear (below the tang) get lifted and dropped back in a tooth off. In practice if you take a car into the shop - they will not start by swapping distributors to solve a timing or no spark condition. A distributor swap would be the last thing in the list. Like you - I assumed compression but it really should be checked if there is spark and fuel |
Aerostatwv |
Mar 15 2023, 05:21 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 13-July 11 From: WV Member No.: 13,315 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Sounds like a bad condenser to me.
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Superhawk996 |
Mar 15 2023, 05:32 PM
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#14
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,514 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
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Type 47 |
Mar 15 2023, 05:54 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 1-June 10 From: St. Louis, MO Member No.: 11,790 Region Association: None |
Do you see the accelerator pump shooting fuel? Do you smell excess fuel or have wet spark plugs? Why do you say too much fuel not enough air? That is solved by cranking with the throttle open until it catches if you have the idle jets way out of whack. Yes, a lot of fuel. We pulled the plugs to check the gap and make sure they were dry. While my son has impressed me assembling this car from the rotisserie, he normally does engine work/timing chains, etc. on 5-10 year old cars. He is "mr. shotgun" and while he has a great understanding of how things work, working on a car without a dozen computers on it is a challenge at times. |
nditiz1 |
Mar 15 2023, 05:54 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,202 Joined: 26-May 15 From: Mount Airy, Maryland Member No.: 18,763 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
If the swapped in distro is a known working entity then by all means leave it, but it's adding another mysterious part. I always go back to last known since nothing else was supposedly changed from when it was working last.
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Type 47 |
Mar 15 2023, 05:56 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 1-June 10 From: St. Louis, MO Member No.: 11,790 Region Association: None |
I would put the old distro back in and make sure the wires are correct and the engine is on TDC. Verify actual TDC but popping off 1/2 valve cover to see both rockers rattle. Make sure when you press the gas pedal you can see all 4 throats get a shot of fuel. I have to assume compression is enough since it was just running. Start there first. yes, good compression. except 3 is a little weak. will check the shot of fuel to each barrel tomorrow |
Type 47 |
Mar 15 2023, 05:57 PM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 787 Joined: 1-June 10 From: St. Louis, MO Member No.: 11,790 Region Association: None |
If the swapped in distro is a known working entity then by all means leave it, but it's adding another mysterious part. I always go back to last known since nothing else was supposedly changed from when it was working last. Yes, we put everything back to where it was before. |
Superhawk996 |
Mar 15 2023, 06:12 PM
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#19
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,514 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
If the swapped in distro is a known working entity then by all means leave it, but it's adding another mysterious part. I always go back to last known since nothing else was supposedly changed from when it was working last. Yes, we put everything back to where it was before. I don’t fully understand what “back where it was before” means to you. I’ll reiterate - need to set the static timing. Without engine running based on the exact moment the points open using a multimeter to know when the points open. Without that set - you’re just guessing that the timing is where it belongs in order to start properly. |
bossboy302 |
Mar 15 2023, 06:50 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: 13-December 21 From: NorCal Member No.: 26,158 Region Association: None |
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