74 1.8L rear coil spring color dots Options

[L-Jet914]

I am swapping out my original rear coil springs for new 100lb springs from 914 rubber. I was reading through the factory service manual and found out that my springs are from the Group 2 and Group 3 stiffness via the 2 and 3 green dots on the coil. The service manual states there are 3 different stiffness options. I wonder if all the 74 1.8s came with this spring option or if it varied. Per the service manual it says they were suppossed to be matched in pairs but from the factory I have no idea haha. @starbear @wonkipop

[L-Jet914]

Second photo of 3 dot

[StarBear]

Will check. Replaced shocks many years ago; not sure if replaced the springs.

[wonkipop]

@L-Jet914
i didn't spot any paint dots on my springs when i did the shocks a few years back.
worn off maybe or very faded. but i was not looking for them at that time.
was happily unaware of the esoteric secret markings all over everything - i'd probably be on the lookout now. had a peer under the car for you to see if i could spot any but can't see any on the visible areas of the springs.


there is a thread on springs here.
its got all the stock spring rate strengths.
there are some tables with all the data for all the different cars.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=95741

the original springs (from 72 on) are quite a bit lower than 100lb.
all in the 50 lb range.
the 6s seemed to be in the 60lb range and the GTs got springs as strong as 90lb max.

my 1.8 has sway bars front and rear from factory.
i think the idea was the sway bars rather than the springs kept the tail from getting too happy in a snappy way and combined with softer springs also gave you comfort.

i kept my original springs and fitted rear biltstein shocks with adjustable perches.
got the rear of the car up a bit higher than where it had done the old 914 arse sag down to. let me set it up all level front to rear and side to side.

interestingly one side of my car at the rear had sagged more than the other after all that time. not a lot but you could pick it up. just a slight difference. we corrected all that with the new shocks and setting the front torsion bars. the shocks i pulled off were the original boges so i am fairly sure the springs are original too. 99% sure.
@Van B mentioned his car when he got it also sagged more on one side at the rear, not a lot but you could notice it.

i'm intrigued by the fact you got two different springs on the rear of the car.
i would have thought they would have been matched pairs.
but there is not a lot of difference in the three different springs the factory supplied anyway. i say this is the context of noticing how with time 914s maybe sag more on one side than the other at the rear? i dunno.!???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
maybe there is some reason for that? but i don't know what it would be.

[L-Jet914]

@L-Jet914
i didn't spot any paint dots on my springs when i did the shocks a few years back.
worn off maybe or very faded. but i was not looking for them at that time.
was happily unaware of the esoteric secret markings all over everything - i'd probably be on the lookout now. had a peer under the car for you to see if i could spot any but can't see any on the visible areas of the springs.


there is a thread on springs here.
its got all the stock spring rate strengths.
there are some tables with all the data for all the different cars.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=95741

the original springs (from 72 on) are quite a bit lower than 100lb.
all in the 50 lb range.
the 6s seemed to be in the 60lb range and the GTs got springs as strong as 90lb max.

my 1.8 has sway bars front and rear from factory.
i think the idea was the sway bars rather than the springs kept the tail from getting too happy in a snappy way and combined with softer springs also gave you comfort.

i kept my original springs and fitted rear biltstein shocks with adjustable perches.
got the rear of the car up a bit higher than where it had done the old 914 arse sag down to. let me set it up all level front to rear and side to side.

interestingly one side of my car at the rear had sagged more than the other after all that time. not a lot but you could pick it up. just a slight difference. we corrected all that with the new shocks and setting the front torsion bars. the shocks i pulled off were the original boges so i am fairly sure the springs are original too. 99% sure.
@Van B mentioned his car when he got it also sagged more on one side at the rear, not a lot but you could notice it.

i'm intrigued by the fact you got two different springs on the rear of the car.
i would have thought they would have been matched pairs.
but there is not a lot of difference in the three different springs the factory supplied anyway. i say this is the context of noticing how with time 914s maybe sag more on one side than the other at the rear? i dunno.!???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
maybe there is some reason for that? but i don't know what it would be.

Interesting that your 1.8L came with sway bars front and rear from the factory. My 74 that my dad purchased new must have been the base of base models haha. I wish that it had come with front and rear sway bars. I've never driven with factory front and rear sways bars. I can imagine it handles differently. What notch did you put the cir-clip on when you fitted the new shocks? I followed Ian Karr's recommendation of 4th from the bottom/3rd down from the top.

[wonkipop]

@L-Jet914
i didn't spot any paint dots on my springs when i did the shocks a few years back.
worn off maybe or very faded. but i was not looking for them at that time.
was happily unaware of the esoteric secret markings all over everything - i'd probably be on the lookout now. had a peer under the car for you to see if i could spot any but can't see any on the visible areas of the springs.


there is a thread on springs here.
its got all the stock spring rate strengths.
there are some tables with all the data for all the different cars.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=95741

the original springs (from 72 on) are quite a bit lower than 100lb.
all in the 50 lb range.
the 6s seemed to be in the 60lb range and the GTs got springs as strong as 90lb max.

my 1.8 has sway bars front and rear from factory.
i think the idea was the sway bars rather than the springs kept the tail from getting too happy in a snappy way and combined with softer springs also gave you comfort.

i kept my original springs and fitted rear biltstein shocks with adjustable perches.
got the rear of the car up a bit higher than where it had done the old 914 arse sag down to. let me set it up all level front to rear and side to side.

interestingly one side of my car at the rear had sagged more than the other after all that time. not a lot but you could pick it up. just a slight difference. we corrected all that with the new shocks and setting the front torsion bars. the shocks i pulled off were the original boges so i am fairly sure the springs are original too. 99% sure.
@Van B mentioned his car when he got it also sagged more on one side at the rear, not a lot but you could notice it.

i'm intrigued by the fact you got two different springs on the rear of the car.
i would have thought they would have been matched pairs.
but there is not a lot of difference in the three different springs the factory supplied anyway. i say this is the context of noticing how with time 914s maybe sag more on one side than the other at the rear? i dunno.!???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
maybe there is some reason for that? but i don't know what it would be.

Interesting that your 1.8L came with sway bars front and rear from the factory. My 74 that my dad purchased new must have been the base of base models haha. I wish that it had come with front and rear sway bars. I've never driven with factory front and rear sways bars. I can imagine it handles differently. What notch did you put the cir-clip on when you fitted the new shocks? I followed Ian Karr's recommendation of 4th from the bottom/3rd down from the top.

believe it or not we set up at 6 from the bottom, one from the top.
when we measured the original perch location on the boge shock it was half way between 5 and 6 from the bottom on the bllly shock.
also i am using the original springs which are softer. probably you know somewhere between 50 and 55 lbs if you look at those charts in the link.

thinking was if it was too high at 6 we would drop to 5.

but once we set the car up level i felt it was pretty good at the 6.
so we left it there, levelled it all, and took it off for an alignment.
and i haven't looked back.

i probably have it riding higher than most folks do but its kind of alright with the set up i have of tall body XAS tyres etc and combined with the sway bars.

i have posted a photo of it back in 89 in chicago and you can see how it sat lower at the back a little bit more originally but sat up at the front in the classic deliberate understeer mode the factory put them in. at least that is what i think the nose up is about.
its VW engineer mandated understeer.
photo of it now shows how i have it. probably a touch higher at rear than original and maybe a touch lower at nose but still sitting up high stock looking rather than lowered.

i could easily have come down to notch 5 and set the whole thing up that way too.

we checked everything and by the time we were finished we were still inside all the specs front and rear in the factory manual so we don't have it outside the envelope but more towards the high end rather than the low end.

i think if you have stronger rear springs you would go for the 4th perch.





chicago 89


melbourne 2022


many many moons ago i drove another 914, an early model, might have been a 71 (it had the old tail shifter). no sway bars. big difference i thought.
mine corners real flat (despite the tall boys) and i really like the way it goes nose into a corner and the rear just seems to follow. truth is i want to take it to a skid pan and really try it out and see if i can induce oversteer and what it feels like, ie is it SNAP.
the maserati club organises club days at the old GM test track at lang lang where there is a skid pan. they water it down for added fun. i also have some contacts with ford guys and the ford test track is still active. we were meant to do it a few years ago but covid interfered with it. with my 914 i am trying to set it up not as a contemporary experience to drive but rather to be in 1974. i've got a little renault rs 172 that i can really fang hard and truth is the 914 cannot get close it that. so i leave the renault for whenever i feel like getting a bit fierce. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

as to sway bar and base models etc.
i think you could play around with them a bit on the options side of things when you ordered one.
@StarBear managed to get himself a fully trick 1.8 with basically everything, except a 2.0 engine. mine sits somewhere between. the original owner was quite discerning. got the sway bars and also the little cubby bin storage console box. its interestingly set up for sure. i believe the wife of the original owners drove the car, it was hers. either she liked to go around corners or he ticked the box for the days when he was going to drive it. i never met her. sadly she had died quite youngish and i bought the car from the husband. it had sat for a few years after she had passed. he'd hung on to it. he was getting remarried - hence the reason he felt he could part with the car. i like to think she was a bit of a driver who liked going around corners but wasn't too worried about having to go fast in a straight line. i'v met a few chicks like that over my life. really good at putting a car through corners. thats all they wanna do. go as fast as they can through a corner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

[StarBear]

Yep; mine has factory front/rear sway bars.
Checked my records and indeed replaced shocks and springs in 1990. Doubt mine have any markings but will check when up in there doing an oil change this weekend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[wonkipop]

@L-Jet914

i dug out the old boge rear shock i took off a few years back.
to the spring ledge from c/l of lower shock connection joint is 185mm.




i re-measured the billy on the car and the same measurement is 190mm.
the perch ledges seem to be around 15mm intervals.
with the standard factory springs it means the boge perch is half way between two billy adjustable perch rings.
we went for the higher one (5mm more than the boge) because we felt the original springs were half a century old so maybe ok to compensate for loss of tension, sag.
it seemed to work for us.

but new 100lb springs would throw all of that right out the door.

the car currently sits an even 190mm above the ground if i measure to the bottom of that little seam that is where the floor pan joins the sill panels, back in further than the bottom of the external sill covers.
and if recall correctly there is a dimension given for minimum clearance in our glovebox owners manuals - if you look closely that min dim is p[orbably/likely to the bottom of the flexible flaps in front of the engine bay on the floor pan? the dim is 130mm. no way was the car ever originally that low to the floor pan generally so the 130 must be to those flaps which are the only thing that hang down seriously low. from memory i have 135mm there so i am probably maybe 5mm higher than stock mins. which kind of fits with the billy setting v the old stock boge. i think there was some other measurements we found in factory workshop manual which let us know we were in the range of stock but high end of range. big difference being its not set up nose high anymore.

[davep]

The springs were manufactured to a common specification, then tested for separation into the three groups. This reduced the left to right difference in production for a better balanced car. If one spring had to be replaced then it needed a replacement with the same # of dots. Over time the springs weaken and sag. A worn out spring will appear bowed since it is not strong enough to keep its shape. I would expect that all original springs are well past their expiry date by now except those that are NOS.
I am not sure what the ideal spring rate (or length) is for a typical street driven car, nor for a performance car. However, one would need to dial in a car to get it to sit evenly (left to right, and front to rear) and this would imply adjustability with the rears. Different perch heights or threaded perch capability for the ultimate adjustability.

[L-Jet914]

@L-Jet914

i dug out the old boge rear shock i took off a few years back.
to the spring ledge from c/l of lower shock connection joint is 185mm.




i re-measured the billy on the car and the same measurement is 190mm.
the perch ledges seem to be around 15mm intervals.
with the standard factory springs it means the boge perch is half way between two billy adjustable perch rings.
we went for the higher one (5mm more than the boge) because we felt the original springs were half a century old so maybe ok to compensate for loss of tension, sag.
it seemed to work for us.

but new 100lb springs would throw all of that right out the door.

the car currently sits an even 190mm above the ground if i measure to the bottom of that little seam that is where the floor pan joins the sill panels, back in further than the bottom of the external sill covers.
and if recall correctly there is a dimension given for minimum clearance in our glovebox owners manuals - if you look closely that min dim is p[orbably/likely to the bottom of the flexible flaps in front of the engine bay on the floor pan? the dim is 130mm. no way was the car ever originally that low to the floor pan generally so the 130 must be to those flaps which are the only thing that hang down seriously low. from memory i have 135mm there so i am probably maybe 5mm higher than stock mins. which kind of fits with the billy setting v the old stock boge. i think there was some other measurements we found in factory workshop manual which let us know we were in the range of stock but high end of range. big difference being its not set up nose high anymore.

Thank you for supplying the measurement from the middle of the bottom shock bolt hole to the bottom of the original perch. I may move the snap ring up one notch and see how it does because on the 4th up from the bottom the new 100lb springs are not under tension when installing the top hat until the top hat starts pushing the spring down when tightening that special through nut that holds bottom mount bushing in place. I am so used to replacing struts/shocks with wall mounted spring compressors to reinstall the top hat piece that I was concerned at how easy it was to install top hat on the new Bilstein rear shock with the coil spring without the need to compress the springs. I may be in the states, but have come to welcome the metric system in measuring lengths/sizes of bolts/sockets etc as I see it to be more accurate in some aspects. Especially in my job when I install door guard accessories on vehicles, I mark everything out in millimeters so it's mark once done haha. I fault myself for not enjoying to read fractions on a tape measure haha especially when the instructions give a measurement in decimals for the SAE side. I purchased tape measure that has both metric and sae and for the most part use the metric side these days.

[L-Jet914]

The springs were manufactured to a common specification, then tested for separation into the three groups. This reduced the left to right difference in production for a better balanced car. If one spring had to be replaced then it needed a replacement with the same # of dots. Over time the springs weaken and sag. A worn out spring will appear bowed since it is not strong enough to keep its shape. I would expect that all original springs are well past their expiry date by now except those that are NOS.
I am not sure what the ideal spring rate (or length) is for a typical street driven car, nor for a performance car. However, one would need to dial in a car to get it to sit evenly (left to right, and front to rear) and this would imply adjustability with the rears. Different perch heights or threaded perch capability for the ultimate adjustability.

Dave,
Thank you for your input on the subject. More information to add to my memory banks.

[StarBear]

@L-Jet914
Was up under the right rear doing oil change. As expected, I didn’t see any dots on mine. Keeping in mind my records show I replaced them a while ago, the could be further up in the tunnel and/or there is a bit of crud up there that may be hiding them.
Onward!

[L-Jet914]

@L-Jet914
Was up under the right rear doing oil change. As expected, I didn’t see any dots on mine. Keeping in mind my records show I replaced them a while ago, the could be further up in the tunnel and/or there is a bit of crud up there that may be hiding them.
Onward!

No worries. Mine were painted toward the bottom. I am surprised the paint was still there.

[StarBear]

@L-Jet914
For historical/repro accuracy minutia, those dot colors look like they’re close to Ravenna Green?