Road rage kills two in Porsche Options

[Eric_Shea]

“Missing Man (and woman) Formation” at the track today.

[Shivers]

Breaks my heart. Two young folks out for a drive in a dream come true. Just hard to imagine what their family and friends are going through. So sad

[Lucky9146]

Very sad to see something like this and a terrible senseless loss.

From the video posted it is easy to find additional coverage news videos that provide names and all the information that folks earlier in the thread were wondering about. I'll give no details as like I said the info is easily available now.

In one video I did a screen shot of Eric's friend Rodney and his car. I post it as a tribute as the Porsche community is in fact small.

[Brett W]

we got problems here with drugs (amph + meth) running rampart in the construction industry where workers are currently paid very high wages on mega transport infrastructure projects in this city down here. they all drive pumped trucks which they buy with their inflated wages and special tax write offs. you got to watch it on the roads during their commuter times. early morning and mid afternoon. lots of rage incidents (drug induced?). aggressive driving, extreme tailgating. etc. i have had a few up my cars arse and i just turn off to get rid of them before anything goes down.

the drugs combined with the "arms race" on vehicle size is starting to turn nasty.
throw roads choked with soccer mums in super big SUVs and its starting to be a lethal cocktail. since i drive mostly a hot hatch and occasionally my 914 its kind of getting to the point of being threatening if you get caught in the vicinity of one of their skirmishes.

WTF does this have to do with some ass clown killing two innocent pedestrians? You have any proof of these bizarre allegations?

The "arms race in vehicle sizes"? Where have you been the last 30 years. The Ferd Excursion was introduced in 2003. This isn't a recent thing. Vehicles have been for the last few decades. This senseless tragedy has nothing to do with "the arms race in vehicle sizes". A truck hit a car head on, not much survives that.

These people lost their lives because and asshole got his feelings hurt. His parents probably didn't beat his ass enough as a kid. He thinks he is entitled to the road.

[SirAndy]

Where have you been the last 30 years

Judging from his profile, i'd say Australia ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[mate914]

This does nothing for the lives lost. Go after the driver "in a legal manner" or DA, not some one half way around the world. wonkipop did not do this.
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

we got problems here with drugs (amph + meth) running rampart in the construction industry where workers are currently paid very high wages on mega transport infrastructure projects in this city down here. they all drive pumped trucks which they buy with their inflated wages and special tax write offs. you got to watch it on the roads during their commuter times. early morning and mid afternoon. lots of rage incidents (drug induced?). aggressive driving, extreme tailgating. etc. i have had a few up my cars arse and i just turn off to get rid of them before anything goes down.

the drugs combined with the "arms race" on vehicle size is starting to turn nasty.
throw roads choked with soccer mums in super big SUVs and its starting to be a lethal cocktail. since i drive mostly a hot hatch and occasionally my 914 its kind of getting to the point of being threatening if you get caught in the vicinity of one of their skirmishes.

WTF does this have to do with some ass clown killing two innocent pedestrians? You have any proof of these bizarre allegations?

The "arms race in vehicle sizes"? Where have you been the last 30 years. The Ferd Excursion was introduced in 2003. This isn't a recent thing. Vehicles have been for the last few decades. This senseless tragedy has nothing to do with "the arms race in vehicle sizes". A truck hit a car head on, not much survives that.

These people lost their lives because and asshole got his feelings hurt. His parents probably didn't beat his ass enough as a kid. He thinks he is entitled to the road.

[wonkipop]

we got problems here with drugs (amph + meth) running rampart in the construction industry where workers are currently paid very high wages on mega transport infrastructure projects in this city down here. they all drive pumped trucks which they buy with their inflated wages and special tax write offs. you got to watch it on the roads during their commuter times. early morning and mid afternoon. lots of rage incidents (drug induced?). aggressive driving, extreme tailgating. etc. i have had a few up my cars arse and i just turn off to get rid of them before anything goes down.

the drugs combined with the "arms race" on vehicle size is starting to turn nasty.
throw roads choked with soccer mums in super big SUVs and its starting to be a lethal cocktail. since i drive mostly a hot hatch and occasionally my 914 its kind of getting to the point of being threatening if you get caught in the vicinity of one of their skirmishes.

WTF does this have to do with some ass clown killing two innocent pedestrians? You have any proof of these bizarre allegations?

The "arms race in vehicle sizes"? Where have you been the last 30 years. The Ferd Excursion was introduced in 2003. This isn't a recent thing. Vehicles have been for the last few decades. This senseless tragedy has nothing to do with "the arms race in vehicle sizes". A truck hit a car head on, not much survives that.

These people lost their lives because and asshole got his feelings hurt. His parents probably didn't beat his ass enough as a kid. He thinks he is entitled to the road.

i don't disagree with you. read my post a little more carefully before you go off like a two bob watch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

the aggression (often chemically enhanced) involved in many road rage incidents combined with mismatched vehicle size is an international problem. you are not alone in this one. and its often got the same consequences all over the planet, someone entirely innocent and uninvolved in the original incident pays for it dearly when it gets wildly out of control.

[wonkipop]

Where have you been the last 30 years

Judging from his profile, i'd say Australia ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
although some cynics down here regard australia as a satellite suburb of the USA.

but seriously, this particular sad incident in the USA, is also now not unusual down here either. used to be road rage would be a couple of idiots got out at the lights and punched the sh#t out of each other or tore a windscreen wiper off and belted the other guy with it. worst that happened was that someone lost a tooth or bit their own tongue.

but now we are getting the run the other guy off the road bs happening - and at speed.
the vehicle size has something to do with the sense of recklessness in my humble view.
feeling like you are not vulnerable. definite escalation and becoming a lot more common.

[Shivers]

Vehicles have super sized over the past few years. In the mid 80’s
I bought Ford F-250 4x4 diesel raised it 7” to fit 40” tires. I was driving LA
freeways and wanted protection. This kind of craziness was going on back then. Hell they were shooting at us. But these new “stock” trucks are huge, bigger than my ford. So in my view it is the same stupid shit with bigger weapons. And these two folks paid the price.

[gandalf_025]

First ride in the wife's 911 this spring, I was driving and stopped at a light.
When the light changed I started moving and stalled the car. {oops, my bad}
The kid behind me at the light lost his shit and started blowing the horn like crazy and screaming at me.
The road we were on has a 25 mph speed limit and is patrolled extensively.
He was climbing on my bumper and weaving like crazy while still screaming.
I pulled over to let him pass and they pulled up alongside and screamed he was going to kill me and his passenger threw a full bottle of coke at us. We were lucky the bottle was plastic and it hit the windshield.
I turned to go after him to get his plate number but my wife was having no part of it..
This was early on a Sunday morning...

I don't have a dash camera in the 911 but will be buying one.
One with front and rear facing cameras like the one in my wife's Honda HR-V....

[wonkipop]

First ride in the wife's 911 this spring, I was driving and stopped at a light.
When the light changed I started moving and stalled the car. {oops, my bad}
The kid behind me at the light lost his shit and started blowing the horn like crazy and screaming at me.
The road we were on has a 25 mph speed limit and is patrolled extensively.
He was climbing on my bumper and weaving like crazy while still screaming.
I pulled over to let him pass and they pulled up alongside and screamed he was going to kill me and his passenger threw a full bottle of coke at us. We were lucky the bottle was plastic and it hit the windshield.
I turned to go after him to get his plate number but my wife was having no part of it..
This was early on a Sunday morning...

I don't have a dash camera in the 911 but will be buying one.
One with front and rear facing cameras like the one in my wife's Honda HR-V....

yes

same sh#t is going down here in north antarctica which is what i was sayin'
its a kind of madness.
down here a lot of it is definitely chemically enhanced.
things are not quite normal.

take care on the roads.
either side of the equator. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[930cabman]

So sad for these young folks and their families.

[thomasotten]

So often we hear of legalizing so-called victimless crimes. Then our cities go to hell, our streets become as said in the original Mad Max, "on the roads it was a white-line nightmare.... and in this maelstrom of decay ordinary men were battered and smashed". So that's how it goes unfortunately. Not for any need, but for lack of virtues. The story above about someone losing their nerve just because you didn't launch off the line, I remember this sort of thing when my 914 was running a tired 1.7 liter. Punks with no patience would ride my tail. You give them a little tap on the brakes but learn not to do that because they pass you and slam of their brakes, wanting you to crash. Some dangerous types out there, and I have personally lost family due to drug induced behavior. What will it be like when these types are driving EV's with 1,000 lbs excess battery mass, and lighting fast acceleration.

[mate914]

100% true. How do we as American's stop the decay of our cities?

Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

So often we hear of legalizing so-called victimless crimes. Then our cities go to hell, our streets become as said in the original Mad Max, "on the roads it was a white-line nightmare.... and in this maelstrom of decay ordinary men were battered and smashed". So that's how it goes unfortunately. Not for any need, but for lack of virtues. The story above about someone losing their nerve just because you didn't launch off the line, I remember this sort of thing when my 914 was running a tired 1.7 liter. Punks with no patience would ride my tail. You give them a little tap on the brakes but learn not to do that because they pass you and slam of their brakes, wanting you to crash. Some dangerous types out there, and I have personally lost family due to drug induced behavior. What will it be like when these types are driving EV's with 1,000 lbs excess battery mass, and lighting fast acceleration.

[JamesM]

Haven't been online in a while, just saw this thread.

Been a rough couple of weeks

Had an extended trip out of town a day after it happened which gave a nice distraction from the situation for a bit but came right back into it a couple days ago and still processing it all.

Just got back from the service and hanging out with his family all night.

Rodney was probably the friendliest guy you could ever meet, but i guess you probably have to be to put up with me for ~20 years. He was my car/camping/concert/anything my wife wasn't interested in doing with me buddy. You couldn't find a more genuine and sincere person.

Just absolutely sickened and incredibly angry over the whole thing.

He had sent me the invite to that drive but i just didn't feel like getting out of bed that morning and im torn on if it was a good thing I wasnt there to see it, or if maybe I was he would have been somewhere else in line and this never would have happened. But then it just would have been someone else, or even me. Its just a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) situation all around and nothing can fix it.

Been helping his family get an inventory and status of all his cars as they were unaware the depth of his collection (he had 12) and the whole thing has me reflecting a lot on the future of my car hobby. Dealing with a large number of vintage cars isnt easy for non enthusiasts and not something I want to leave my wife and daughter to deal with should something happen to me as I have about the same number.
That, and when you lose the person you spent the most time with enjoying the hobby it just winds up taking a lot of the fun out of it. In a way we were sort of enablers of each other when it came to cars, always pumping up the excitement in each other when there was a new prospect vehicle out there and driving hours out to the middle of nowhere to check them out.

Definitely going to be reflecting on this for a while.


News coverage of the service today:

https://kutv.com/news/local/community-celeb...a-himmelberger#

[JamesM]

I can find the names of the people who passed away from this tragic out off control group. I have not been able to find the names of the drivers who caused this.
Did any one here catch the names? Are the names being protected because they are a protected class?

Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

thats because you have the same legal system we have (more or less sort of), inherited from the english.
its highly evolved despite what we might think of it.
and they are now subject to the presumption of innocence, even charged.
as it should be.
generally the names are suppressed.

from here on its a matter for the courts.
as it should be.

objectivity in relation to evidence is how it works.
the fact that you cannot find the names is a signal of the seriousness.

i feel sad for the folks who lost their lives.
very sad. minding their own business.

its a serious matter. in the realm of manslaughter etc.
----

watch out in your 914 or your hot hatch. you don't want to be run into by an SUV or a US spec truck. they sell them here too. dodge rams etc. big vehicles.

The name of the driver of the truck became public record once he checked into his new state run residence. Thankfully he is facing 2 homicide charges among other things, but i have little faith in the Utah justice system and even the worst case punishment wouldn't be enough in my mind. I am at a complete loss though as to why the other driver in the Nissan isnt being charged as well as the exchange between the two had been going on for over 2 miles before the crash. Utah doesn't have any road rage laws but you would think at least reckless driving would apply.

https://kutv.com/news/local/suspect-in-fata...ning-himself-in


Anyways...Keeping it 914 related, here is a picture of Rodney's Black 3.2 along with one of my 914s and another one of our buddies white car. Rodney had a 71 914 for a little while but it was pretty beat so he didnt keep it long. Was always looking for another one but couldn't find the right deal (he was a bit of a frugal SOB)






We had some good times in our vans as well! Going to miss him.

[JamesM]

These people lost their lives because and asshole got his feelings hurt. His parents probably didn't beat his ass enough as a kid. He thinks he is entitled to the road.

I am really hoping his prison time rectifies this deficiency of ass beatings.

I have to agree with the assessment though. Without straying off to much into the political or religious aspects behind it Utah has a very strange culture with an very prominent personal entitlement element. Not coincidently Utah is also #1 in the country for road rage incidents. The population here is young, the drivers are awful, and a large percentage of people here believe by birthright they are superior to all others.

Its not a good combination.

I suspect its the "Me first!" attitude applied to driving style around here that drives the high incidents of road rage. For instance, if you approach a stop light in the right lane with no one in front of you, but 2 cars already stopped at the left lane the 2nd driver on the left will almost always without fail pull quickly to the right lane to ensure that they are not behind a 2nd person, which then forces the approaching driver to have to abruptly brake much harder to avoid rear ending them. What's really strange to me is that they only jump over IF someone approaches. People refuse to allow merging when multiple lanes condense down to one. People will speed up if you signal you are about to change lanes in front of them. People pull out in front of you on roads despite the fact that there are zero cars behind you if they would have just waited a 1/4 of a second. They just cant handle not being first. Its absolutely bizarre. Moved here from California and had to adjust my driving style pretty significantly to accommodate all the BS that occurs on the roads here. My Utah born wife is always amazed when we go back to California at how easy it is to drive on the freeways there, specifically in that people actually "zipper" merge properly when getting on rather than having to force your way in.

If you don't adjust your driving here and anticipate that in every situation someone is going to do the dumbest (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) possible than i could see how people get easily aggravated. Still though its no excuse for some asshat to turn a public highway into his own personal Mad Max re-enactment. Especially when it kills my friend who had nothing to do with the situation at all.


Seriously though, don't understand how the Nissan driver doesn't have any related charges. Per their own statement to the police they were upset when the pickup pulled in front of them at an intersection MILES before the accident location yet when the accident occurred it was the Nissan in front of the pickup and the pickup rammed them while trying to pass on the shoulder. Witnesses stated the back and forth was going on for miles and one of the lead cars in my buddies party had the interactions on dashcam. Yes, the pickup driver did multiple epically stupid things that ultimately resulted in the crash but it was the reaction of the Nissan driver being upset over someone pulling in front of them in the first place that escalated the whole situation and obviously was involved in aggressive passing given they wound up in front by the time of the accident.

The whole thing is just stupid.

[sixnotfour]

So Sad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) A Couple just enjoying a Drive.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) ...