E-85 fuel released in louisville, 85% Corn Ethanol fuel Options

[bd1308]

saw this on the local news today....

question is...how flexible is our engines and carbs for alternative fuels?

i was thinking not flexible at all, but i was just asking...

[Cap'n Krusty]

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Aug 19 2005, 05:12 AM)

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Aug 19 2005, 07:00 AM) The use it in Brazil....out of sugar cane and beets.  The entrained water rusts the exhaust.   Yes, it's a "renewable" resource but it's more expensive than oil and is subsidized by the government. i dunno about brazil but here the ethanol is 2.10/gal and 87 is 2.53/gal

You missed the point. It costs more to produce, and it's subsidized all the way from the farmer to the refinery, keeping YOUR pump price down and dumping the difference on the rest of us. The Cap'n

[mikelsr]

I had my 914 over to Brad Mayeur's (914 Limited) and when we looked at the fuel filter in the engine compartment we found that the fuel in it was boiling (clear filter). He asked me what fuel I was using and I told him it was from Mobile. He then asked if it had ethanol in it. I told him that I thought it did (and it does). Brad told me that ethanol lowers the boiling point of the fuel and that I shouldn't use it if possible. We also rerouted the fuel line...

[phantom914]

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Aug 19 2005, 05:00 AM)

The use it in Brazil....out of sugar cane and beets. The entrained water rusts the exhaust. Yes, it's a "renewable" resource but it's more expensive than oil and is subsidized by the government.

Nah. In Kentuckee it is just confiscated moonshine.

Andrew

[phantom914]

Does anybody have an idea what the price per barrel of oil would have to reach to make ethanol/gasohol a viable alternative without subsidies?

I'm too lazy to search.

Andrew

[Aaron Cox]

only in kinfucky (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif)

[bd1308]

got ya....

well i dont want to give you all one more reason to hate me so I won't get any....

[Crazyhippy]

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Aug 19 2005, 06:12 AM)

You missed the point.  It costs more to produce, and it's subsidized all the way from the farmer to the refinery, keeping YOUR pump price down and dumping the difference on the rest of us.  The Cap'n

Since we're paying for it anyways, why not get some of the benifit from it?

[Sammy]

Just to reinforce what hs already been posted,
Ethanol (and methanol) give off less BTUs by volume during combustion, so it provides less power per gallon.
It also burns much leaner than gas, the ideal A/F ratio for ethanol is somewhere in the 8 to one range for maximum power.
The only real benefits to burning alcohol is that it burns very cool and you can get away with 15 to one compression ratio or higher.

If everything else stays the same, you should expect lower performance and worse fuel economy from switching to that mixture. If it were me I'd avoid it like the plague.

[Joe Bob]

OH yeah I forgot....it also melts underground gas tanks unless specially designed beforehand to hold alcohol based fuels of more than 10%.

[redshift]

It leeches moisture, from the air. Sludge, and fouled fuel delivery, here you come...

Lower BTU, higher volume to reach unity, with petrol.


M

[swl]

Geez guys. Some of you sound like the doom and gloom folks who said our engines would die instantly without lead in it. Do a google search on 'ethanol automotive fuel' - some good reading there. Here is one link that deals with many of the fears expressed above.

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/factfic_enperf.html

Granted you have to keep in mind the source of that article has some self interest. As much as I support alternative fuel programs I'm not sure I would put e85 into an old porsche (old anything for that matter). It is hidden in that article under phrases like 'most modern ...' In particular I would doubt that the rubber in our fuel system would survive e85. Maybe e10 but I don't know if I would risk e85.

You guys in socal in particular are choking on smog. This stuff could really help that situation. If you can spend all that energy on restoring a 35 year old rust magnet you can certainly find a way to make ethanol work in your cars.

'scuse me. I'll go back to hugging my tree now.

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (swl @ Aug 19 2005, 12:40 PM)

You guys in socal in particular are choking on smog. This stuff could really help that situation. If you can spend all that energy on restoring a 35 year old rust magnet you can certainly find a way to make ethanol work in your cars.

Actually, So Cal is a LOT cleaner than it was 15-20 years ago. When I first visited LA in 1987, smog would regularly get so bad you could barely see 10 cars in front of you on the freeway. Today, such days are rare.

[redshift]

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/factfic_enperf.html

Anything that can't support itself in a market, should not exist there. R&D should come as points -on the back-end- not out of your neighbor.


M

[bd1308]

we have lots of trees here.

[phantom914]

I like pizza.

[dbledsoe]

I wouldn't put E85 in your tank unless your engine is specifically designed to handle it. Ethanol/methanol has a greater percentage of oxygen than gasoline does by a significant factor. You'll need to increase all jet sizes by a factor of 2 to 3 times the current area. In other words, you'll run extremely lean and risk seizing your engine, if you can get it to run at all.

Years ago I experimented with running methanol in an old Suzuki 50cc motorbike. It took a while to get the jetting right; I seized several pistons before I found the right combination. When I did find the combo power increased about 10% but fuel consumption skyrocketed.

My 2 cents... for what it's worth.

[redshift]

If you bought a tank of it here, for a 914, and drove it on occasion, you'd have to drain it in a month.

The humidity would kill it, not to mention the octane drop.


M

[black73]

I worked at an ethanol plant in KY in the '80's. It was basicly an enormous moonshine still run by the gov't. A few people on the graveyard shift were sampling the product until they put an additive in to make them sick to discourage that. The plant was just a subsidy for the corn farmers IMHO. When the gov't money went away the plant closed.

[Nick]

Actually it dependa who you ask if ethonal is renewable. Department of Agriculture says it is but they don't tae into account the energy it takes to harvest the corn that ethonal is produced from. Department of energy points out the when you factor in the energy it takes to grow the corn you only get back 80% of the energy you put in its not such a great deal. The EPA will olso not those natural gas fired water pumps that aren't efficient enough to make this worth while are draining aquifers so fast to keep the corn alive that they are being dimished. Basically ethonal exists because it keeps farmers happy in early primary states. Oh and yes I have lived in DC to long.

Nick

[scotty b]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) You guys are getting all werkd up over nothing. Anyone in the know, knows this horseless carriage contraption won't last. Nothing will ever beat the efficiancy of the coal powerd locomotive, plus there's MORE than enough coal to go around. You damn kids and you're pipe dreams (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)